Tilley Motor Information page
This page can be found at:
http://www.phact.org/e/tilley.htm
Carl Tilley and
Robert Kibbey in 6/2001 in Tennessee have claimed some over unity device and other stuff. Their demonstration failed in 9/02 and as of
11/02, they have been evading proper demonstations.
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Tilley/fraud/index.html is a list of Tilley’s long criminal record and how he recently tricked people into investing 100’s of thousands of dollars.
The following article by "Garnett Forkum" <garnett@automotivereport.net> from automotivereport.net raises some good points:
- wheel
bearings don't fail as abruptly as Tilley claimed
- For the direction the car was going around the track, it would have been the opposite wheel to get the stress.
- The person familiar with DeLoreans said he'd never seen a rear bearing fail, especially on a low-mileage car". (Tilley followers claimed the opposite)
- the surface charge effect explains how the battery could be run down and have a good charge
From the October 2002 editions of
AutoGraphic's _Automotive Report_publications:
Inventor claims his electric car never needs recharging
By Roger
Lee Randles of AutoGraphic's
_Automotive Report_publications
NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Carl Tilley, a self-proclaimed inventor living
in Middle Tennessee, claims to have invented a device that will provide enough
energy to propel an electric car while keeping the batteries fully charged.
However, the doubts shared by many individuals skeptical of the
projectwhere recently reinforced by a failed demonstration at the Nashville
SuperSpeedway.
With the help of two assistants, Tilley removed the factory engine
from a 1981 DeLorean and installed an electric motor, twelve 12-volt batteries
and two of his devices, one as the primary source of electric charge and the
second as a back up unit in case the first one failed. These two devices are
roughly six to eight inches in diameter, and approximately ten to twelve inches
long (looking somewhat like a small electric motor) and are belt
driven by the same electric motor that powers the DeLorean. Tilley now refers
to the revamped automobile as the Tilley Electric Vehicle or TEV.
At Tilley's invitation, on Sept. 3, three representatives of _Automotive
Report_ visited the facility in Lebanon, Tenn., where the TEV was built and is
housed. Tilley answered questions during the hour-long meeting and also invited
AR editor Garnett Forkum to drive the TEV.
Though allowed to see the devices, AR was not allowed to examine,
test or photograph them. Although Tilley is not an engineer, nor a
scientist -- he has never attended a university and has had no formal training
to prepare him for the role of an inventor -- he says he has been involved in
the pursuit of alternative energy sources for a number of years. "I
started work on a device about 18-years-ago," the 62-year-old Tilley said,
as he discussed his background and the history leading up to the fabrication of
his allegedly ground-breaking device.
Tilley says being neither a scientist nor an engineer probably
helped him to see what others with more education could not. "Actually I
couldn't figure out why they couldn't do it. What's so difficult about
it?" he asked
rhetorically. "I think everybody concentrates on just plugging it
in," Tilley said, discussing electric-car technology in general.
"When they build electric cars, okay, you run them all day or 30 or 40
miles and then you
plug them in. Why do they concentrate on that when it would be easier to
concentrate on the fact, 'How do I keep this car running without plugging it
in?' If they'd have looked at it that way, they'd have probably figured it
out."
What Tilley says he
figured out is how to create a device that "creates enough electricity to
keep [the batteries] topped off," thus allowing the TEV to run without ever
needing to be recharged from an outside power
source. And how exactly did he figure this out? "Probably like most
inventors -- just stumbled onto it," he says. During the
Sept. 3 meeting, Tilley talked about plans to test the TEV on Saturday, Sept. 7,
at the Nashville SuperSpeedway. Tilley said that he expected his car to run at
speeds of between 75 and 90 miles-per-hour (very fast when compared to
production electric vehicles), but that a distance record for electric vehicles
was what he coveted. His intention, he told AR, was to run "probably"
400 laps, or 532 miles on the 1.33 mile oval.
Garnett Forkum co-founded AR after spending twenty five years as a
service manager and service director at a GM dealership, which in the early
'80s sold and serviced DeLorean automobiles. At the Sept. 3 meeting he
accepted Tilley's offer to drive the DeLorean-based TEV. After a short test run
of three or four miles, Forkum recalls that the car "performed very well,
and had obviously undergone a professional conversion from gasoline to electric
power."
During the scheduled Sept. 7 SuperSpeedway test run, the TEV did
not accomplish the desired 400 laps. After the car circled the track less than
15 times, Tilley stopped the demonstration claiming an axle-bearing failure.
According to the Tilley foundation Web site, "Immediately upon returning
to the workshop in Lebanon, planning began for repair of the DeLorean which
will include close attention to all mechanical systems, including bearings all
around."
Forkum attended the SuperSpeedway test, and being puzzled by the
reported failure of the left-rear wheelbearing and by certain other events made
the following observations:
"Wheel bearings almost never experience a sudden failure that
would render a car undriveable. Wheel bearing failures normally start with a
slight noise which slowly increases as the car is driven many more miles.
There was no audible wheel-bearing noise when I drove the car on Sept. 3.
"If one assumed that the test conditions caused the reported
failure, traveling counterclockwise at speed around a racetrack with a
rear-engine
car would put the most weight and load on the right rear bearing, not the left.
"In my years servicing DeLoreans I cannot recall ever seeing
a rear bearing fail, especially on a car with reportedly only 22,000 miles.
"Finally, no independent observer was given the opportunity
to verify the reported failure."
Another occurrence that puzzled Forkum took place after the car
was driven 13 laps and pulled into the garage area with the reported
wheel-bearing failure. Forkum observed that everyone seemed to be amazed
that a voltmeter reading was higher after the car sat not running for 20 or 30
minutes than a reading taken when the car was initially shut down. "This phenomenon
is commonly known as a surface charge," Forkum said, "and is actually
normal for a lead acid battery after being subjected to an extended high
amperage draw,"
Another individual with a keen interest in the Tilley project is
Eric Krieg. Krieg, who has an electrical engineering degree from Lafayette
College in Easton, Pa., has posted an open offer to "Validate claims of
free
energy" on his Web site (www.phact.org/e/freetest.html).
Through this site, Krieg offers a $10,000 validation prize to anyone who has
invented a working device which they are willing to demonstrate. Krieg's site
refers to these potential devices as "free energy machines," and
indicated to AR during a phone interview from his Philadelphia office that
Tilley's device would fall into that category. Krieg further stated that he has
made the validation offer directly to Tilley's associate, Doug Littlefield,
through an exchange of e-mail correspondence, and also has made the offer
directly to Carl Tilley at a Web-based discussion board. To this point, Tilley
has not
officially accepted Krieg's offer, and Krieg is not surprised. "I've been
through such negotiations with many other claimants. So far, people have always
faded away."
Krieg said that Tilley's failed test at the SuperSpeedway fits a
pattern. "It's very common for the many different people who demonstrate
Ofree energy' kinds of devices to have their things break part way through the
demonstration." Krieg went on to say with regard to those who
wish to rewrite the laws of physics that extraordinary claims require
extraordinary proof -- proof that Tilley for one has yet to present. Krieg then
offered this warning for those who might be tempted to funnel dollars into such
schemes: "Investors in such projects may have to pay the price for
sleeping through science class." Skepticism notwithstanding,
according to Tilley's Web site, he intends to keep trying. "At this point
a date for a repeat of the validation test has not been established as we have
to assess the time it will take to be fully prepared, Tilley said."
Watch for further developements in AR.
(c)2002 AutoGraphic Publishing Company, Inc.* * *
A few comments:
Naturally, they have not contacted me about other tests. Being consistent with other free energy claimants, they have rushed off to do halfway (never fully demonstrated) jobs on a number of other vehicles. A friend of mine pointed out it is suspicious that they did not start on an electric vehicle - that should have saved much investor money. It’s been 3 months since their pathetic September 7th demonstration where they blamed the failure on a wheel bearing. Tilley never responded to my chant, "how long can it take to change a wheel bearing?" I think a great service is done when media people take responsibility to warn people about the fantastic claims that usually leave a wake of bankruptcies behind.
The following appeared from a discussion board: http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Tilley/fraud/Kibbey/021112_documenting.htm
More Charges About Fraudulent Charger Claims
Former Tilley associate, Robert Kibbey, claims to be
setting forth a set of documentation of misrepresentations by Tilley.
The following message appeared on the Tilley Fan Forum and is being posted here for archive purposes, because the forum automatically deletes messages after 250 messages are posted after it.
Date: 11/29/02
11:56:57 PM
Name: Tom Buyea
Email: __________
Subject: Robert Kibbey's E-mail to me ! -- Long
Saved e-mail
message
From: rkibbey2@juno.com
(Robert Kibbey) Date: Tue, Nov 12, 2002, 5:33am (EST-1) To: __________
Subject: Re: Tilley Kibbey field generator
Yes I have a model. No I did not tell him how to complete the car.
In my opinion, Carl is extremely paranoid and is not about to let anybody help
him correctly complete it.Look up a website called phavt.org and it says
"how to make a living selling phoney energy devices. You will see several
interesting parallels.
The device which I originally designed as a portable RV generator is more or
less what powers the car. We
have a provisional patent on it.
It WILL light a 200 Watt halogen bulb for an extended period of time, however
it will not power a whole shop yet (as Tilley proclaimed in several share sales
meeting in which the mis-statements and outright lies were many).
If you ask Tilley about Watts law, maximum transfer of power at
matching impedance a tank circuit or any basic electric problem , you'll find
he doesn't know. Ask him, his phone number is 615-444-5315. He won't answer
though because he has thirty five plus really ticked off defrauded investors
and at last count five legal actions on his plate. Most importantly I just
found out yesterday that inspite of a court order forbidding him to access any
accounts, he closed one, took the money and sold stock $15,000 to a guy in
Minnesota. He has now enterred the arena of criminal law(again)
My opinion is this: According to the Wyoming law
authorities( where he is wanted for three counts of fraud)we contacted who said
"Do not give this man any money he makes his living selling"energy
devices." (Then he moves).
it appears that after he fooled me into believing that he had already built
devices similar to my designs(It took me awhile to figure out how he worked
this angle , and I never saw any proof of a device that ran at his "ranch
for seven years.".didn't find any proof of any ranch either just 16 addresses
in about ten years.) anyway, once I made my device marginally workable ,and
worked up a way to put it in a car later etc, at that point it looked pretty
spiffy with blinking readouts etc. ..well then I refused to back up the
outrageous performance claims he was making like
"it floats in the air"..sparks shoot out several feet, there are
three opposing rotating magic parts inside" (see his logo on the Tilley
foundation website for that rotating logo..... which is utter nonsense...
Well about that time ....He got ticked and decided that it looked just fine to
sell stock with. He left the investors in the Tek-nology Inc company formed to
supposedly sell the techology and he started selling what now amounts to over
100% of his shares. After all he only owned 50% to begin with so it didn't take
long.
Now it appears on the web that following the same pattern: Show people a magic
silver box..car etc...clain it has nothing to do with you former device and
that you own all of it but will sell some of YOUR personal stock, get a new
cmpany name to raise money under(a new company name and the logo of the
Delorean surrounding by a circular lightning bolt. has just appeared on the web
.His site now says that the technology is available for "showings"
but it is available only by "private showing". In the court order
this is a no no too.
Hey if it works don't fix it just do it again.
A guy named Walter Webb wiaed me up to this originally after he had raised
$400,000 for Tilley and began to questions Tilleys failure to issue him promised
stock and Tilley's ways of avoiding any actual testing of the unit.
So Carl moved on to a guy named Doug from vermont who replaced Walter who
replaced me.
That original RV unit that was so amazing has now been put in the background
and he is using the car(s) to raise money.
I put it to you, if the RV generastor had actually been capable of powering his
whole shop wouldn't YOU have sold it for millions if you were in his place
woudn't you. I would have.I tried to. he found many ways to keep it from getting
tested. hecj he even got my original attorney on his side. Son of a gun went
around me when i would't trade out legal services for stock. I wiouldn't take
his money either.... heck I thought he was my "friend'. Boy was I sure
surprised when Walter later showed me he had magically appeared on the board of
directors. Son of a gun did quit the same day Walter mailed packet out to all
the stockholder telling everybody about the fraud an good ol' Mister Kibbey 1/2
owner who supposedly did'nt exist. Ha. Then the lawyer had the balls to try
billing me for worked we'd traded out for plumbing a long time ago. That was to
keep me off his butt. It didn't work. I was promised 2 Billion dollars too of
course it have my never showed up... that is part of the pattern too.. lots of
promises of shares in the potential millions. that will even make a friend bite
you in the butt. Ouch .
gee somehow that magic little unit never got tested ..or completed by me. Why
bother. it raised $400K. But... if you just want to sell stock...you move on to
the car. My original plan was to bolt the device into an existing electric car
and match voltages.easy quick ..just send that little bugger tooling across the
U.S. coast to coast. ther is a very good chance that I can do just that.
But my oh my... a Delorean is a lot flashier. I just wanted results. The
Delorean only went 13 laps at the Nashville speedway before a "wheel
bearing" supposedly failed. Gee what a surprise
.....coincidentely at maximum draw, say 400 amps or so , a standard
state of the art kit electric vehicle would go just about that far WITHOUT a
Kibbey/Tilley generator.
Hmmmm. Also the "mechanic " was there who helped build the thing and
he told Walter that he offerred to fix it right there. Tilley wouldn't let him.
Nor would he reportedly let a Delorean club memver fix it right there so the
test could continue. I wonder why? Could it be that the car did'n't work as
promised. could it be that the $5,000 he reportedly paid out to rent the
facility was just chump change compared to the tens of thousands you'd get from
the internet and TV coverage? He just packed it up, citing sercurity concerns.
Then..... the website said the Delorean was off by 2".
by the way in court his Lawyer said it was a sucessful test. but the website says
it wasn't.Hmmmmm eenie meenie minie moe....The lawyer even spilled the beens
pleading to ther judge to drop the Injunction because it was stopping them from
selling "more stock". By the way that was a duplicate injuction an it
was dropped the judge took the stand that the one was enough and had a strong
basis. Carl is telling people everything has been beat. nonsense.
So there was further delay while an Exterra was purchased and supposedly
outfitted...only OH no!!!It was 2" off too!
what a coincidence. Now another page appeared citing more delay and now another
model SUV is to be used .
Again I put it to you. If you had a Delorean that would really run coast to
coast wouldn't you just quickly fix the little 2" problem. Not of you
wanted to sell more stock you wouldn't.
In retrospect looking back at why Tilley didn't want to finish it or have it
tested....I think it may be that Tilley was so surprised that I made a device
work that he just couldn't wait to go back to good old plan A from days gone
by.
It may not have been part of the plan to begin with.Why bother?
I am doing the honest original plan which is that I am currently having the
device legitimately tested and built from ground up by an independent design
lab. I'll let you know shortly how it goes.. Meanwhile Carl is violating court
orders selling more stock etc.I would not be surprised if he finds a way to
fake his run to little rock,,you know have a spare car in a van hook a wire up
from a generator hidden in the van when you stop for a hamburger. Misquote the
watchers or just make sure no one sees the switchola. he is a brilliat con man.
how else could he take a failed run at the speedway and turn it into a victory.
It would make a great movie script! i'd never have believed it if I hadn't seen
it with my own eyes. The amazing thing at his filmed presentations is he
contradicts himself over and over..one minute it has 24 carat gold contacts the
next minute it has 14 carat gold contacts...then back to 24 or 14 or whatever
is convienient . One minute they have a supposed standing 13 million dollar
offer..in the video investors look askance as to why they don't sell it right
then for the big money...but wait..Carl says because you can make sooo much
more.
Even investors I have spoken with and who have seen the evidence of fraud have
actually NOT asked for there money back saying things like"but what if it
really is worth 2 billion(one fraudulent unpursued purchaser brought out that
figure) ..."gee they say, what if it does hit ".
The man is a brilliant con man. He is experienced at 61 years old..depending
upon who he is talking to. He says he was a Navy SEAL but we can find no record
of it. He told stockholders he needed more money because he just spent $275K on
medical bills for his wife who he says has M.S. She has something..but she also
reportedly has Tenncare which means the state pays.
He tells one investor that he is going to help buy him a home..then he tells
the man that he just had millions embezzled from his accounts...oops no new
house. .
He lived in a two bedroom apartment when I met him and I used to give him
cigarette money.
But hey, he fooled me for a year, and he has fooled some awfully wealthy and
smart investors. Greed is why. It is a blinding emotion.
He ain't done yet.but now that he 's gone criminal again(before it was just
civil) by violating the court order I would not be surprised to see another
17th move, Then perhaps I can see if I can help some of the defrauded Tilley
foundation investors recover their money by completing it. Maybe not
....several are still buying the storyline.
Forgive my rambling it is two in the morning.I have been gathering copies of
patents evidence, tapes etc. and mailing them out ot scammed investors hoping
that they will take up the truth too and maybe get the law to nail this guy.
Feel free to give me a fax # and address and if I get time I'll send you some
evidence and get the word out.
I'd really like to get this over with so I can complete a Universal translator
I've been working on. I have a real Phazer type stun gun in the works to. My
electronics genius I tap for second opinions belives they'll both work well.
We'll see.
Thanks for inquiring!
PS I badly need to get a Tilley fraud website up and running with the facts on
it. can you help. Got any ideas.
This week we meet with our attorney again and start the filing for breach of
the court order and more.
God willing right will win out. The evidence is overwhelming.But, he knows the
system and how far he can push it before moving.
Get the word out.
For evil to succeed it is only necessary that good men do nothing.
Thanks again.
Robb
Carl Tilley Reply
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 9:08 PM Subject: Re: Honda, Toyota deliver fuel cell cars; Claims of
Tilley Fraud; Bearden review; WITs disclaimer
Hi Sterling,
Thank you for sending me a copy of the e-mail from Mr.. Kibbey.....very interesting....seems the man changes his story with each mail out he sends.....however we will let the lawyers take care of this.....I did notice he has my phone number wrong and expect to see Mr. Kibbey being handed some papers from Colorado...you need to ask him about his impersonation of a doctor to obtain prescription drugs and fraud arrest in Colorado and many arrest as well as an outstanding warrant in Colorado for him and the skip he made from Colorado, un-paid bank loans, credit cards, and judgments....by the way ask him about the man he took items from...his drug arrest and assaults and menacing......I almost forgot over 23 address and that dose not count the ones that are P.O. box address................be this as it may....the lawyers will be at work.
Carl.
Dear John:
You have good observations concerning Tilley and the way this group reacts
to him. We on the group are all very predictable. The yea-sayers
say yea and the
nay-sayers say nay.
Checking my archives of previous posts, I must say nay.
The following things seem suspect about Tilleys demonstration to me.
1. Tilley towed the Delorean up to the race track. If the car has a
perpetual battery why wasn't it thetowing vehicle or at least driven on its own
power.
2. Tilley had the car hooked up to a grid power charging source till
the moment of the demonstration.
3. Tilley had the second party "Allison" drive it for the
initial laps, and then kicked him out to complete the demonstration.
4. The bearing broke when only Tilley was in the car.
5. The car ran to about half the predicted point of the battery life
on the set of batteries.
6. The predictable event of the batteries coming back to their
initial voltage after they rested was used as a evidence that the car recharges
itself.
To accuse Tilley of fraud would require evidence of him soliciting
investors on a device he knew didn't work.
Tilley's demonstrations were conducted at Tilley's expense. Fraud
should only be assumed when he goes to the next step, and says "I have
proved my concept, I
need your money."
Until then we all should just wait and see.
Sid Hagen
· fo-------------------------------------------
The following
is another post about Tilley from the free_energy email list:
I
have a skeptical viewpoint of the Tilley ATV test as Garry does. I agree with
Garry about the fact that this is a golf cart, and it is probably not that much
of a "magical feat" that the cart ran for 20 hours.
I would have preferred more details on the tests that were done on the
battery. I checked the Fluke site, http://www.fluke.com
and was unable
to find a "heavy battery load meter," although, I did find the
336 meter. That meter is a true RMS clamp meter.
As has been discussed in this group previously, the voltage readings on the
battery are no major miracle. Even a "depleted battery," i.e., a
battery that has been substantially discharged, would still show a substantial
voltage on it provided it had no load. IMHO, a more interesting test would have
been to measure the current the battery was producing before the test at a
given voltage, then measure the current the battery was producing after the
test at the same voltage as the measurement before the test. And perhaps much
more interesting than that would have been to determine the length of time the
battery would sustain a particular load both before and after the test. I'd
guess that the greater the load, i.e., the more current the load was drawing,
the more likely such a test would be to find a difference in the capacity of
the battery since a greater load would cause the battery to discharge quicker
than a light load.
Charge on a battery is dependent on the charged/discharged condition of the
plates. As I am sure many of you already know, the figure that Garry gives of
1155 AH means that a brand-new battery would generate 1 A for 1155 hours, or
1155 A for one hour. As the battery becomes depleted, the AH capacity
decreases, and the capacity also becomes less as the battery ages - i.e., put
through discharge/charge cycles. Determining the length of time that a battery
can generate a particular current at a particular voltage would seem to be a
much more meaningful way to determine the state of the battery's charge than by
simply measuring voltage. I noted that the tests stated no specific current
measurements.
All the best,
Matthew
r more
reading of free energy scams check
out the perpetual motion chapter of Jack Phins 'the 7 Follies of Science' -
also the book 'Perpetual Motion: The History of an Obsession' and 'The
Perpetual motion Mystery ' by John Collins and 'The Manual of Free Energy
Devices and Systems' by D. A. Kelly. I have tried to let all the latest
free energy claimants know
Eric helped found this skeptical society
back to Eric's main Dennis Lee
page what about Joe Newman? Also,
Amin, Mills (who may be
legit?) Tilley, Perendev, Bearden Lutec and Tewari o
· The Museum of Unworkable Devices a great overview of them
· INE Free Energy
Devices Database - - another great list of FE claims
Creator of this
here page and his skeptic pages
and crack pot pages
Milt's discussion of Free
Energy and Ceti
A excellent history of perpetual motion machines from an
Australian skeptic
· FAQs What about claims
of reactionless drives?
· My open priz e money for a real
free energy machine
back to my
main page about Dennis Lee. -
· 
how to become a Free Energy con man
· what about 300 mpg carburetors?
· Eric's discussion of real forms of
free energy
· A more believing
history of free energy claims
· Another good overview
of Free energy claimants Crank
Dot Net | free energy
· Bob Schadewald claims to have
invented a Perpetual
motion machine - but will the big conspiracy stop him?
· EXTRAORDINARY
CLAIMS REQUIRE EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE!
· . FREE
ENERGY FAQ
· For a totally
different interpretation, check out this conspiracy believing history of free energy 'inventions'
I think the writer of it doesn't understand that many fraud perpetrators claim
they've been offered outrageous sums to hook investors and then disappear after
being detected to avoid incarceration - which gets interpreted by believers as
evidence of a conspiracy.
Click to
subscribe to free_energy
or or subscribe to victims
of Free Energy Scams
I recommend the following group for examing paranormal claims:
back to Eric's main Dennis Lee page and information on Joe Newman's Free Energy Promises
Creator of this
page- get on an email list which
includes discussion of topics like this
How you too can get rich as the next free energy messiah
;)
pages exposing Joe Newman
and Dennis Lee who some people suspect of leading a nationwide
scam. Also, Mills (who may
be legit?) Tilley, Perendev, Bearden Lutec and Tewari
Comments can be sent to eric@voicenet.com I'm
happy to publish critical responses to my claims.
This page can be found at: http://www.phact.org/e/tilley.htm