Tilley Motor Information page
This page can be found at: http://www.phact.org/e/tilley.htm
Carl Tilley and Robert Kibbey in 6/2001 in Tennessee have claimed some over unity device and other stuff. Their demonstration failed in 9/02 and as of 11/02, they have been evading proper demonstations.
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Tilley/fraud/index.html is a list of Tilley’s long criminal record and how he recently tricked people into investing 100’s of thousands of dollars.
The following article by "Garnett Forkum" <firstname.lastname@example.org> from raises some good points:
From the October 2002 editions of
AutoGraphic's _Automotive Report_publications:
Inventor claims his electric car never needs recharging
By Roger Lee Randles of AutoGraphic's _Automotive Report_publications
NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Carl Tilley, a self-proclaimed inventor living in Middle Tennessee, claims to have invented a device that will provide enough energy to propel an electric car while keeping the batteries fully charged.
However, the doubts shared by many individuals skeptical of the projectwhere recently reinforced by a failed demonstration at the Nashville SuperSpeedway.
With the help of two assistants, Tilley removed the factory engine from a 1981 DeLorean and installed an electric motor, twelve 12-volt batteries and two of his devices, one as the primary source of electric charge and the
second as a back up unit in case the first one failed. These two devices are roughly six to eight inches in diameter, and approximately ten to twelve inches long (looking somewhat like a small electric motor) and are belt
driven by the same electric motor that powers the DeLorean. Tilley now refers to the revamped automobile as the Tilley Electric Vehicle or TEV. At Tilley's invitation, on Sept. 3, three representatives of _Automotive
Report_ visited the facility in Lebanon, Tenn., where the TEV was built and is housed. Tilley answered questions during the hour-long meeting and also invited AR editor Garnett Forkum to drive the TEV.
Though allowed to see the devices, AR was not allowed to examine, test or photograph them. Although Tilley is not an engineer, nor a scientist -- he has never attended a university and has had no formal training to prepare him for the role of an inventor -- he says he has been involved in the pursuit of alternative energy sources for a number of years. "I started work on a device about 18-years-ago," the 62-year-old Tilley said, as he discussed his background and the history leading up to the fabrication of his allegedly ground-breaking device.
Tilley says being neither a scientist nor an engineer probably helped him to see what others with more education could not. "Actually I couldn't figure out why they couldn't do it. What's so difficult about it?" he asked
rhetorically. "I think everybody concentrates on just plugging it in," Tilley said, discussing electric-car technology in general. "When they build electric cars, okay, you run them all day or 30 or 40 miles and then you
plug them in. Why do they concentrate on that when it would be easier to concentrate on the fact, 'How do I keep this car running without plugging it in?' If they'd have looked at it that way, they'd have probably figured it
What Tilley says he
figured out is how to create a device that "creates enough electricity to
keep [the batteries] topped off," thus allowing the TEV to run without ever
needing to be recharged from an outside power
source. And how exactly did he figure this out? "Probably like most inventors -- just stumbled onto it," he says. During the Sept. 3 meeting, Tilley talked about plans to test the TEV on Saturday, Sept. 7, at the Nashville SuperSpeedway. Tilley said that he expected his car to run at speeds of between 75 and 90 miles-per-hour (very fast when compared to production electric vehicles), but that a distance record for electric vehicles was what he coveted. His intention, he told AR, was to run "probably" 400 laps, or 532 miles on the 1.33 mile oval.
Garnett Forkum co-founded AR after spending twenty five years as a service manager and service director at a GM dealership, which in the early '80s sold and serviced DeLorean automobiles. At the Sept. 3 meeting he
accepted Tilley's offer to drive the DeLorean-based TEV. After a short test run of three or four miles, Forkum recalls that the car "performed very well, and had obviously undergone a professional conversion from gasoline to electric power."
During the scheduled Sept. 7 SuperSpeedway test run, the TEV did not accomplish the desired 400 laps. After the car circled the track less than 15 times, Tilley stopped the demonstration claiming an axle-bearing failure.
According to the Tilley foundation Web site, "Immediately upon returning to the workshop in Lebanon, planning began for repair of the DeLorean which will include close attention to all mechanical systems, including bearings all around."
Forkum attended the SuperSpeedway test, and being puzzled by the reported failure of the left-rear wheelbearing and by certain other events made the following observations:
"Wheel bearings almost never experience a sudden failure that would render a car undriveable. Wheel bearing failures normally start with a slight noise which slowly increases as the car is driven many more miles.
There was no audible wheel-bearing noise when I drove the car on Sept. 3. "If one assumed that the test conditions caused the reported failure, traveling counterclockwise at speed around a racetrack with a rear-engine
car would put the most weight and load on the right rear bearing, not the left. "In my years servicing DeLoreans I cannot recall ever seeing a rear bearing fail, especially on a car with reportedly only 22,000 miles.
"Finally, no independent observer was given the opportunity to verify the reported failure."
Another occurrence that puzzled Forkum took place after the car was driven 13 laps and pulled into the garage area with the reported wheel-bearing failure. Forkum observed that everyone seemed to be amazed
that a voltmeter reading was higher after the car sat not running for 20 or 30 minutes than a reading taken when the car was initially shut down. "This phenomenon is commonly known as a surface charge," Forkum said, "and is actually normal for a lead acid battery after being subjected to an extended high amperage draw,"
Another individual with a keen interest in the Tilley project is Eric Krieg. Krieg, who has an electrical engineering degree from Lafayette College in Easton, Pa., has posted an open offer to "Validate claims of free
energy" on his Web site (www.phact.org/e/freetest.html). Through this site, Krieg offers a $10,000 validation prize to anyone who has invented a working device which they are willing to demonstrate. Krieg's site refers to these potential devices as "free energy machines," and indicated to AR during a phone interview from his Philadelphia office that Tilley's device would fall into that category. Krieg further stated that he has made the validation offer directly to Tilley's associate, Doug Littlefield, through an exchange of e-mail correspondence, and also has made the offer directly to Carl Tilley at a Web-based discussion board. To this point, Tilley has not
officially accepted Krieg's offer, and Krieg is not surprised. "I've been through such negotiations with many other claimants. So far, people have always faded away."
Krieg said that Tilley's failed test at the SuperSpeedway fits a pattern. "It's very common for the many different people who demonstrate Ofree energy' kinds of devices to have their things break part way through the
demonstration." Krieg went on to say with regard to those who wish to rewrite the laws of physics that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof -- proof that Tilley for one has yet to present. Krieg then offered this warning for those who might be tempted to funnel dollars into such schemes: "Investors in such projects may have to pay the price for sleeping through science class." Skepticism notwithstanding, according to Tilley's Web site, he intends to keep trying. "At this point a date for a repeat of the validation test has not been established as we have to assess the time it will take to be fully prepared, Tilley said."
Watch for further developements in AR.
(c)2002 AutoGraphic Publishing Company, Inc.* * *
A few comments:
Naturally, they have not contacted me about other tests. Being consistent with other free energy claimants, they have rushed off to do halfway (never fully demonstrated) jobs on a number of other vehicles. A friend of mine pointed out it is suspicious that they did not start on an electric vehicle - that should have saved much investor money. It’s been 3 months since their pathetic September 7th demonstration where they blamed the failure on a wheel bearing. Tilley never responded to my chant, "how long can it take to change a wheel bearing?" I think a great service is done when media people take responsibility to warn people about the fantastic claims that usually leave a wake of bankruptcies behind.
The following appeared from a discussion board: http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Tilley/fraud/Kibbey/021112_documenting.htm
Former Tilley associate, Robert Kibbey, claims to be setting forth a set of documentation of misrepresentations by Tilley.
The following message appeared on the Tilley Fan Forum and is being posted here for archive purposes, because the forum automatically deletes messages after 250 messages are posted after it.
From: email@example.com (Robert Kibbey) Date: Tue, Nov 12, 2002, 5:33am (EST-1) To: __________ Subject: Re: Tilley Kibbey field generator
Yes I have a model. No I did not tell him how to complete the car. In my opinion, Carl is extremely paranoid and is not about to let anybody help him correctly complete it.Look up a website called phavt.org and it says "how to make a living selling phoney energy devices. You will see several interesting parallels.
The device which I originally designed as a portable RV generator is more or less what powers the car. We
have a provisional patent on it.
It WILL light a 200 Watt halogen bulb for an extended period of time, however it will not power a whole shop yet (as Tilley proclaimed in several share sales meeting in which the mis-statements and outright lies were many).
If you ask Tilley about Watts law, maximum transfer of power at matching impedance a tank circuit or any basic electric problem , you'll find he doesn't know. Ask him, his phone number is 615-444-5315. He won't answer though because he has thirty five plus really ticked off defrauded investors and at last count five legal actions on his plate. Most importantly I just found out yesterday that inspite of a court order forbidding him to access any accounts, he closed one, took the money and sold stock $15,000 to a guy in Minnesota. He has now enterred the arena of criminal law(again)
My opinion is this: According to the Wyoming law authorities( where he is wanted for three counts of fraud)we contacted who said "Do not give this man any money he makes his living selling"energy devices." (Then he moves).
it appears that after he fooled me into believing that he had already built devices similar to my designs(It took me awhile to figure out how he worked this angle , and I never saw any proof of a device that ran at his "ranch for seven years.".didn't find any proof of any ranch either just 16 addresses in about ten years.) anyway, once I made my device marginally workable ,and worked up a way to put it in a car later etc, at that point it looked pretty spiffy with blinking readouts etc. ..well then I refused to back up the outrageous performance claims he was making like
"it floats in the air"..sparks shoot out several feet, there are three opposing rotating magic parts inside" (see his logo on the Tilley foundation website for that rotating logo..... which is utter nonsense...
Well about that time ....He got ticked and decided that it looked just fine to sell stock with. He left the investors in the Tek-nology Inc company formed to supposedly sell the techology and he started selling what now amounts to over 100% of his shares. After all he only owned 50% to begin with so it didn't take long.
Now it appears on the web that following the same pattern: Show people a magic silver box..car etc...clain it has nothing to do with you former device and that you own all of it but will sell some of YOUR personal stock, get a new cmpany name to raise money under(a new company name and the logo of the Delorean surrounding by a circular lightning bolt. has just appeared on the web .His site now says that the technology is available for "showings" but it is available only by "private showing". In the court order this is a no no too.
Hey if it works don't fix it just do it again.
A guy named Walter Webb wiaed me up to this originally after he had raised $400,000 for Tilley and began to questions Tilleys failure to issue him promised stock and Tilley's ways of avoiding any actual testing of the unit.
So Carl moved on to a guy named Doug from vermont who replaced Walter who replaced me.
That original RV unit that was so amazing has now been put in the background and he is using the car(s) to raise money.
I put it to you, if the RV generastor had actually been capable of powering his whole shop wouldn't YOU have sold it for millions if you were in his place woudn't you. I would have.I tried to. he found many ways to keep it from getting tested. hecj he even got my original attorney on his side. Son of a gun went around me when i would't trade out legal services for stock. I wiouldn't take his money either.... heck I thought he was my "friend'. Boy was I sure surprised when Walter later showed me he had magically appeared on the board of directors. Son of a gun did quit the same day Walter mailed packet out to all the stockholder telling everybody about the fraud an good ol' Mister Kibbey 1/2 owner who supposedly did'nt exist. Ha. Then the lawyer had the balls to try billing me for worked we'd traded out for plumbing a long time ago. That was to keep me off his butt. It didn't work. I was promised 2 Billion dollars too of course it have my never showed up... that is part of the pattern too.. lots of promises of shares in the potential millions. that will even make a friend bite you in the butt. Ouch .
gee somehow that magic little unit never got tested ..or completed by me. Why bother. it raised $400K. But... if you just want to sell stock...you move on to the car. My original plan was to bolt the device into an existing electric car and match voltages.easy quick ..just send that little bugger tooling across the U.S. coast to coast. ther is a very good chance that I can do just that.
But my oh my... a Delorean is a lot flashier. I just wanted results. The Delorean only went 13 laps at the Nashville speedway before a "wheel bearing" supposedly failed. Gee what a surprise .....coincidentely at maximum draw, say 400 amps or so , a standard state of the art kit electric vehicle would go just about that far WITHOUT a Kibbey/Tilley generator.
Hmmmm. Also the "mechanic " was there who helped build the thing and he told Walter that he offerred to fix it right there. Tilley wouldn't let him. Nor would he reportedly let a Delorean club memver fix it right there so the test could continue. I wonder why? Could it be that the car did'n't work as promised. could it be that the $5,000 he reportedly paid out to rent the facility was just chump change compared to the tens of thousands you'd get from the internet and TV coverage? He just packed it up, citing sercurity concerns. Then..... the website said the Delorean was off by 2".
by the way in court his Lawyer said it was a sucessful test. but the website says it wasn't.Hmmmmm eenie meenie minie moe....The lawyer even spilled the beens pleading to ther judge to drop the Injunction because it was stopping them from selling "more stock". By the way that was a duplicate injuction an it was dropped the judge took the stand that the one was enough and had a strong basis. Carl is telling people everything has been beat. nonsense.
So there was further delay while an Exterra was purchased and supposedly outfitted...only OH no!!!It was 2" off too!
what a coincidence. Now another page appeared citing more delay and now another model SUV is to be used .
Again I put it to you. If you had a Delorean that would really run coast to coast wouldn't you just quickly fix the little 2" problem. Not of you wanted to sell more stock you wouldn't.
In retrospect looking back at why Tilley didn't want to finish it or have it tested....I think it may be that Tilley was so surprised that I made a device work that he just couldn't wait to go back to good old plan A from days gone by.
It may not have been part of the plan to begin with.Why bother?
I am doing the honest original plan which is that I am currently having the device legitimately tested and built from ground up by an independent design lab. I'll let you know shortly how it goes.. Meanwhile Carl is violating court orders selling more stock etc.I would not be surprised if he finds a way to fake his run to little rock,,you know have a spare car in a van hook a wire up from a generator hidden in the van when you stop for a hamburger. Misquote the watchers or just make sure no one sees the switchola. he is a brilliat con man. how else could he take a failed run at the speedway and turn it into a victory.
It would make a great movie script! i'd never have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. The amazing thing at his filmed presentations is he contradicts himself over and over..one minute it has 24 carat gold contacts the next minute it has 14 carat gold contacts...then back to 24 or 14 or whatever is convienient . One minute they have a supposed standing 13 million dollar offer..in the video investors look askance as to why they don't sell it right then for the big money...but wait..Carl says because you can make sooo much more.
Even investors I have spoken with and who have seen the evidence of fraud have actually NOT asked for there money back saying things like"but what if it really is worth 2 billion(one fraudulent unpursued purchaser brought out that figure) ..."gee they say, what if it does hit ".
The man is a brilliant con man. He is experienced at 61 years old..depending upon who he is talking to. He says he was a Navy SEAL but we can find no record of it. He told stockholders he needed more money because he just spent $275K on medical bills for his wife who he says has M.S. She has something..but she also reportedly has Tenncare which means the state pays.
He tells one investor that he is going to help buy him a home..then he tells the man that he just had millions embezzled from his accounts...oops no new house. .
He lived in a two bedroom apartment when I met him and I used to give him cigarette money.
But hey, he fooled me for a year, and he has fooled some awfully wealthy and smart investors. Greed is why. It is a blinding emotion.
He ain't done yet.but now that he 's gone criminal again(before it was just civil) by violating the court order I would not be surprised to see another 17th move, Then perhaps I can see if I can help some of the defrauded Tilley foundation investors recover their money by completing it. Maybe not ....several are still buying the storyline.
Forgive my rambling it is two in the morning.I have been gathering copies of patents evidence, tapes etc. and mailing them out ot scammed investors hoping that they will take up the truth too and maybe get the law to nail this guy.
Feel free to give me a fax # and address and if I get time I'll send you some evidence and get the word out.
I'd really like to get this over with so I can complete a Universal translator I've been working on. I have a real Phazer type stun gun in the works to. My electronics genius I tap for second opinions belives they'll both work well. We'll see.
Thanks for inquiring!
PS I badly need to get a Tilley fraud website up and running with the facts on it. can you help. Got any ideas.
This week we meet with our attorney again and start the filing for breach of the court order and more.
God willing right will win out. The evidence is overwhelming.But, he knows the system and how far he can push it before moving.
Get the word out.
For evil to succeed it is only necessary that good men do nothing.
Thank you for sending me a copy of the e-mail from Mr.. Kibbey.....very interesting....seems the man changes his story with each mail out he sends.....however we will let the lawyers take care of this.....I did notice he has my phone number wrong and expect to see Mr. Kibbey being handed some papers from Colorado...you need to ask him about his impersonation of a doctor to obtain prescription drugs and fraud arrest in Colorado and many arrest as well as an outstanding warrant in Colorado for him and the skip he made from Colorado, un-paid bank loans, credit cards, and judgments....by the way ask him about the man he took items from...his drug arrest and assaults and menacing......I almost forgot over 23 address and that dose not count the ones that are P.O. box address................be this as it may....the lawyers will be at work.
You have good observations concerning Tilley and the way this group reacts to him. We on the group are all very predictable. The yea-sayers say yea and the
nay-sayers say nay.
Checking my archives of previous posts, I must say nay.
The following things seem suspect about Tilleys demonstration to me.
1. Tilley towed the Delorean up to the race track. If the car has a perpetual battery why wasn't it thetowing vehicle or at least driven on its own power.
2. Tilley had the car hooked up to a grid power charging source till the moment of the demonstration.
3. Tilley had the second party "Allison" drive it for the initial laps, and then kicked him out to complete the demonstration.
4. The bearing broke when only Tilley was in the car.
5. The car ran to about half the predicted point of the battery life on the set of batteries.
6. The predictable event of the batteries coming back to their initial voltage after they rested was used as a evidence that the car recharges itself.
To accuse Tilley of fraud would require evidence of him soliciting investors on a device he knew didn't work.
Tilley's demonstrations were conducted at Tilley's expense. Fraud should only be assumed when he goes to the next step, and says "I have proved my concept, I
need your money."
Until then we all should just wait and see.
The following is another post about Tilley from the free_energy email list:
have a skeptical viewpoint of the Tilley ATV test as Garry does. I agree with
Garry about the fact that this is a golf cart, and it is probably not that much
of a "magical feat" that the cart ran for 20 hours.
I would have preferred more details on the tests that were done on the battery. I checked the Fluke site, http://www.fluke.com and was unable
to find a "heavy battery load meter," although, I did find the 336 meter. That meter is a true RMS clamp meter.
As has been discussed in this group previously, the voltage readings on the battery are no major miracle. Even a "depleted battery," i.e., a battery that has been substantially discharged, would still show a substantial voltage on it provided it had no load. IMHO, a more interesting test would have been to measure the current the battery was producing before the test at a given voltage, then measure the current the battery was producing after the test at the same voltage as the measurement before the test. And perhaps much more interesting than that would have been to determine the length of time the battery would sustain a particular load both before and after the test. I'd guess that the greater the load, i.e., the more current the load was drawing, the more likely such a test would be to find a difference in the capacity of the battery since a greater load would cause the battery to discharge quicker than a light load.
Charge on a battery is dependent on the charged/discharged condition of the plates. As I am sure many of you already know, the figure that Garry gives of 1155 AH means that a brand-new battery would generate 1 A for 1155 hours, or 1155 A for one hour. As the battery becomes depleted, the AH capacity decreases, and the capacity also becomes less as the battery ages - i.e., put through discharge/charge cycles. Determining the length of time that a battery can generate a particular current at a particular voltage would seem to be a much more meaningful way to determine the state of the battery's charge than by simply measuring voltage. I noted that the tests stated no specific current measurements.
All the best,
r more reading of free energy scams check out the perpetual motion chapter of Jack Phins 'the 7 Follies of Science' - also the book 'Perpetual Motion: The History of an Obsession' and 'The Perpetual motion Mystery ' by John Collins and 'The Manual of Free Energy Devices and Systems' by D. A. Kelly. I have tried to let all the latest free energy claimants know
· The Museum of Unworkable Devices a great overview of them
· INE Free Energy
Devices Database - - another great list of FE claims
Creator of this here page and his skeptic pages and crack pot pages
Milt's discussion of Free Energy and Ceti
A excellent history of perpetual motion machines from an Australian skeptic
· EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS REQUIRE EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE!
· . FREE ENERGY FAQ
· For a totally different interpretation, check out this conspiracy believing history of free energy 'inventions' I think the writer of it doesn't understand that many fraud perpetrators claim they've been offered outrageous sums to hook investors and then disappear after being detected to avoid incarceration - which gets interpreted by believers as evidence of a conspiracy.
Creator of this
page- get on an email list which
includes discussion of topics like this
How you too can get rich as the next free energy messiah ;)
pages exposing Joe Newman and Dennis Lee who some people suspect of leading a nationwide scam. Also, Mills (who may be legit?) Tilley, Perendev, Bearden Lutec and Tewari
Comments can be sent to firstname.lastname@example.org I'm happy to publish critical responses to my claims.
This page can be found at: http://www.phact.org/e/tilley.htm