Re: Electrical verses magnetic fields

Dino Arnulfo M. Baua ( (no email) )
Wed, 20 May 1998 23:25:21 +0800

At 06:27 PM 5/18/98 -0500, you wrote:

> A magnet is turning inside a coil of wire, so call electrons are bumping
>along in the
>wire carrying a electrical charge to a load. Number 1 question. How are
>electrons
>being replaced in the coil after the others have left to a load? If
>electrons are being
>replaced from the aether, you should have noticeable effects around large
>generators.

Electrons are replaced by other electrons from the load. They get passed along from the generator's coils, to the load, then back to the coil. This brings to mind why a generator or battery is called an electron pump. So, I don't think they aren't being replaced from the aether. I honestly don't see how the aether influences the generator even. (?)

>Question number 2. The electrons are so called "charged" with this
>explanation, what
>happened to their charge when the load was disconnected and the magnet
>stops?

Charge is actually referred to the "amount" of electrons present in a material, not of an electron, its charge doesn't change, of course. If a material had more electrons than protons, it'd be negatively charged. If it had less electrons than protons it'd be positively charged. In the instance that the load is disconnected from the coil when the magnet stops, the coil remains neutral, and the electron remains negative.

> If the generator runs long enough you'll have a bunch of atoms running
>around looking
>for electrons! I personally believe you must have law and order in this
>world we live in
>being "BALANCE". Now everything in this world has some sort of "defense"
>system.
>Atoms are no different since everything is made up of them. I believe
>copper atoms
>are actually "offended" by a moving magnetic field. The magnet being a
>superimposed
>electrical field offends these atoms causing their electrons and protons to
>go "Out of
>balance" around their orbit of the nucleus. The nucleus reacts by putting
>out
>potential from each of its atoms from this displeasure if you may.. This is
>repetative
>among the copper atoms, one senses it from the other offering its own
>supply of
>potential. But the futher from the generator it goes, the effect drops
>depending on
>wire size which contain more copper atoms if the wire guage is larger.

I believe the word you're looking for is "equilibrium." I'll just share a little electron theory first. Atoms in the coil don't do the running around in the coil, the electrons do. The atoms of a copper coil form a type of crystal bond whose valence electrons jump from one atom to another. Those valence electrons are just those electrons that are on the outermost orbit of an atom. The lesser number of electrons you have on that outermost orbit, the easier it is for that atom to give up that electron, and hence be a good conductor of electricity. Any material with less than four valence electrons are conductors, more than four and they're insulators, equal to four and they're semi-conductors.

A spinning magnet inside a coil isn't the only way to make those little elctrons jump from one atom to another. As long as a magnetic field builds up and collapses along the length of a coil current flow, or electron flow, is produced. The "moving magnetic field," as you say, is what causes a build-up and collapse of a magnetic field along the wire, hence a current flow, hence a potential difference or voltage.

Now the magnet's magnetic field is not an electric field. The magnetic field doesn't affect the atom's nucleus, it's protons and or neutrons, just the electrons. They don't go out of balance, but the direction of electron flow is what causes potential difference. If you do a "thumbs up" sign with your hand, think of your thumb as the general direction of current flow, with your remaining fingers as the direction of rotation of the magnet, and the electrons in the coil. That's called the right hand rule.

You are close to right in saying that the "further away" the electron has to travel the "effect drops." Actually, the atoms in the conductor are the root cause of the "effect drop," or resistance as it is called. Atoms aren't arranged in the conductor in an "orderly fashion" as one would expect from a crystal. It is this disarray of atoms that electrons have to jump form one to the other that causes the resistance to electron flow, and therefore a voltage drop. That is why a super conductor has no resistance, its atoms are influenced in an arrangement that electrons flows freely among them.

>Heating in the
>wire would be caused by the out of balanced state of the atom. One might
>ask about
>other conductors? Take silver for exsample, it would carry potential in the
>same manner, but its atoms are not offended by a magnetic field as copper
>is. But they
>are subceptable to potential which is repetative. I say electrons are going
>nowhere.

Heating is caused by the inherent resistance that atoms offer to electron flow, not an "out of balance state." In the same way that a lost child has to go through a crowd of adults to get to the otherside of a room, the child transfers her kinetic energy to other people. That manifestation of energy is heat, only the child doesn't feel it.

> Do you want to experience the atoms "defense" system in person? Wear a
>nylon
>shirt with a polyester jacket all day. You'll be glad to shuck those when
>you get

Now this is a case entirely different from conductors. Electron theory has laws governing current flow. The above is true for cuurent flow, a dynamic system. A polyester jacket and nylon shirt, doesn't follow those same laws, because as far as this part is concerned, this is a static system, static electricity, stored charge. All insulators have the ability to be conductors or charge carriers. That can only happen if they were ionized, or have an excess or absence of electrons. When the nylon particles rub the polyester particles, you are transferring electrons from one material to the other, it goes only one way, I don't know which way that is. When you touch someone a transfer of electrons occur, i.e. electron flow, i.e. a current flow.

This also explains lightning. The atmosphere rubs (wind, and the like) against the earth. Eventually, a negative charge is accumulated in the clouds and a positive in the ground. This potential difference increases and increases until the air in between gets ionized enough to conduct the excess electrons from the clouds to the ground. Lightning.

>home. The fact is, they are two different materials of atoms that just cant
>tolerate
>one another. To me.. its just natures way of balance.
>Dont roll over yet Mike Faraday....these are just thoughts. Any takers??

I'm not well versed on electron theory even though I'm an electronics engineer. I major in communications engineering and electronics is a prerequisite. Which is to say that I'm sure that magnetic fields are entirely different from electric fields. In fact it is the study of electric fields and magnetic fields that enable us to use antennas for radio communications.

Just my answers to your thoughts.

Dino- @}
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