The Vortex Generator: My thoughts. - Don
Here's the plans in a nut shell
(Here is some other unhappy links)
http://www.keelynet.com/energy/clem1.htm (at the bottom)
Well the plans have arrived. After reviewing them, it is plain to see that it is nothing more than a pulse motor, with the back emf going back to the battery. The plans are missing some details, and there is not one ounce of data to back up any claims. The plans is also missing a circuit diagram, and no reference to his "control box". As far as the pancake coil is concerned, he doesn't state if the it is supposed to be there in normal mode, or just something to experiment with, and doesn't not provide details in hooking it up.
Other pages show pulsing a isolation transformer, and claiming to get out 12 volts at 2 amps "Free Energy". I have made many experiments my self here, and there is the back emf that can be recovered certainly, but you cant send the output back to the battery to keep the batteries charged and still take an output equal to the input.
My thought and first indication is that this is very fraudulent - especially given the fact that the plans cost $170.00. His site says 25 times more energy can be extracted from the generator coil- and I certainly don't see it, not even a COP of 1.
DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY!! I would suggest a class action suit against them and have them shut down. I don't' have a problem with them selling this stuff. What I do have a problem with is telling people its OU, charging a huge amount of money for non-working and incomplete plans, and no supporting documentation - and the misconception that you can use it to power your house etc. when in fact you can not. Secondly, advertising the unit with a photo, and the plans to do not match the photo. Your buying what you see in the photo - supposedly.
The plans are not complete, and is a poor design from anyone claiming to be an "engineer". Secondly, it IS NOT patent pending as it is nothing more than a common DC motor with a home made commutator. The coil is made from a 2 amp radio shack transformer with the wires removed and the sides cut out . You use this core for the electro magnet. (You can use a big bolt for all it matters) With 100 turns of 18 ga wire wrapped around it as suggested in the plans, and using a 12 volt battery hooked up to an amp meter - the coil draws almost "30 DC AMPS!!!!" It will be less when pulsed of course. The armature is just a 5/16" steel rod with 2 radio shack rectangular magnets "glued" to the shaft, which turns over the coil. It uses a homemade commutator attached to the same shaft at one end for timing - made with a piece of copper pipe. There is no doubt that it is a DC motor. Did he invent it - Not hardly. Is it a special Vortex - again NOT HARDLY!
Is it overunity? NOT EVEN CLOSE!! Can you collect the back emf? Yes . Is the back emf 25 times the input - NO WAY! This person doesn't appear to have an understanding of what over unity is. There is not one piece of supporting documentation or evidence of what the output is versus input .
If you have to guess what components your supposed to use in this device, or try this or try that, then wouldn't you agree that you DO NOT have a plan.
Below is the response to my e-mail.
I am sorry you are having trouble. We are updating these plans and adding more as well as a video or DVD please send us your address by e-mail to our ordering dept. and say that you want the Vortex $200 plan up dates with video or DVD, your choice. WE are still working on a video at this time and will not be narrated but will be very helpful I am sure.
First of all this thing is for real. and the Vortex DC Motor was designed for Researhers, Schools, Science Teachers etc... When Rick was playing with the small coil of copper coil wire and a Radio Shack Magnet, with a diode and capacitor connected from off his desk, it produced 15 to 25 times more energy than without the capacitor, Rick believes that once you learn and play with differant size coils and # of turns - vs - Voltage you will get a understanding of how to make this device produce free energy from it.
I will try my best to answer your questions below, see my answers next to.....
From: Don Adsitt
Date: Sunday, July 21, 2002 12:18:28 PM
Cc: Adsitt, Donald
Subject: vortex plans - question.
I'm having trouble with your plans. There very confusing. I would like to point out that in advertising on your site for these plans, WHAT we are expecting to pay for is the ability to replicate the photo shown, not something else.
As stated in the 1st paragraph at http://www.fuellesspower.com/vortex.htm
new vortex device takes over and vacuums more
free spinning electrons from the copper, in a
vacuum vortex effect! 25 times more energy can
be extracted from a generator coil!
So I am expecting plans to build the photo shown, and when completed, it should have 25 times more energy.
( That will depend upon what you learn and build. Rick says you can get much more than that! by combining the Joe Newman effect to it. either way the unit will produce Free Energy by the Back EMF of the Free Energy from a collapsing magnetic field, generated in a coil of copper coated wire. )
I am assuming the following:
A) The core is from a 2 amp transformer from radio shack ( I have purchased this, and cut it out as shown.
B) The photo show thick wire (18 ga), so that is what is to be replicated. the plans say on page 9 ...."Make one with #18 copper coated wire which should be about 90 to 100 turns". I have wound the coil with 100 turns of 18 ga. wire BUT it is does not protrude out to the sides like your photo. WHY IS THIS! What is the actual turns in the photo? ( I believe the photo maybe #16 wire, you should have read before building,
" The more turns the BETTER!" )
C) Your advertising this as a MOTOR/Generator - which is the reason for buying the plans. The photos on the site - reflect that the unit shown is a motor/GENERATOR - not just a motor. The closest diagram for this is on page 9. However, you do not state what the value of the capacitor or the diode is. What are these values?
( This is an educational device, you must try different values, and if you know anything about amperage and electronics you will know what to use. )
D) The photos on your site (this is what your selling) DO not show 36 or a small ga. wire. Yet on page nine you say that if you sue 18 ga wire that the commutator will run hot, heat loss = energy loss. This would not obvioulsy contradict the 1st paragraph of the unit producing 25 times more energy. What is correct based on the site photos? ( The #18 wire will produce free energy by the collecting the back EMF as stated earlier, it is a learning tool only, you want to use smaller wire with hundreds of turns. you will get more free energy output. )
E) ON page 9 , last paragraph is says, ."will run very cool and use very little amperage from your DC power supply,use a 12 vdc battery with a small 100 watt dc to ac inverter." This makes no sense. An ac inverter is for AC voltage. What is the inverter for, and there is no explanation as to a connection diagram for it. What is this about and where is the diagram? ( The inverter is to step up the voltage to 120 vdc or 220 vdc by using a diode and is run into the fine wire coil. a greater voltage should come out than what went in as well as greater amperage. )
F) On page 9 as well, the diagram for the output says "Free Energy Output to load or back to the battery". The output here can be several hunded volts - but not much amperage. What is the measured output of your unit, and what type of load are you suggesting? How is this proven or where is the data showning 25 times more energy. This is very confusing. How can this be?
G) The photos on the site appear to have the pancake coil connected to the pulse circuit. It does not appear to be separate. There is very little information in the plans about this. You photos on the site show the pancake coil under the main coil, so it seems that the pancake is a requirement - based on the photos, and why we bought the plans in the first place. How is the pancake coil hooked up in the photos on your site, and if there not- than what load is it going to. There should be diagrams of this, but there isnt. How is the pancake coil used and why is it shown hooked up to the primary coil on your site? ( This is for research and learning, It can run the motor all by itself, but will be an amperage hog, you can help it some by using the vortex set up, We used the flat coil in the photo to collect the magnetic field from the primary and back emf of the electro magnet, which I believe generates high amp electricity with low voltages. )
H) Page 11, the only reference to the pancake coil. You show it in the photos on your site, but there is no plan here. What is the length of wire used to make the coil? This needs to be in the plans. You do not state what the length is. In order to make the unit shown , this information is missing. What is the wire lenght (18 ga.).
I paid $170.00 here, and am disappointed in all this missing information. I hope you can clear things up, so the I can make the unit SHOWN on your site, and see 25 more times the input as advertised for this.
Don thank you for your comments and we will work on making our plans even better!
As you state on your site - Guaranteed to work or your money back!
and as stated in the first paragraph:
new vortex device takes over and vacuums more
free spinning electrons from the copper, in a
vacuum vortex effect! 25 times more energy can
be extracted from a generator coil!
Because the motor (COIL) does not produce 25 times more energy - I am therefore requesting a refund based on your guarantee.
The back emf generated does not equal (in watts) the input to create it - let alone 25 times more. Please not that even without a capacitor or diode in the circuit the back emf is still there and can be measured on an oscilloscope, and again, the watts inputted is always greater than the watts (energy) out.
Please credit my paypal account for $170.00 I will mail the plans back to you after the credit to my account.
WE have not stated anything that was wrong. Infact if you will do the experiment that is on the first pages of the 785p Vortex Generator plans you will find that you get about 25 times more energy output, this is why we stated this on the web. we know it works, therefore how can we give you a refund. have you read the entire papers that we gave you? I do not think you realize what we sent you, or you would not be complaining at all. We have a customer Dr. -Ing Werner Hirsch down in Austria who has tried it and he loves it, and many others.
I understand you want to stay with the same thinking as your electronic books have taught you, but you must be open and go beyond that, the books are wrong in many things and must be and should be and someday will be rewritten, ask Joe Newman. We have large researcher companies that have purchased these plans also.
I'll tell you what I will do, If you want I can give you a discount as credit toward other plans, videos or kits.
you can have a $100 credit. Now I think that is very fair, all you need to do is send us back the plans in good shape.
I hope we do not loose you as a customer, we have many exciting things coming up that we maybe selling on our web in the future, if we dare to>>>>>>
NOt only New discoveries from us but also from other Free Energy researchers from all over the world!
Creative Science & Research
PO BOX 557
New Albany, IN. 47151
AND MY RESPONSE:
From: Don Adsitt
To: Rick Harrison
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: Creative Science & Research
Again, I repeat that you GUARANTEE -
What you Show - A photo of a common DC motor.
What you sell - BACK EMF RECOVERY:
What is NOT TRUE: 25 times more ouput!
I have done this and MANY, MANY other such experiments. IF you compute your watts input to the watts OUTPUT - there is NOT 25 times the input!! ....OR if you measure it on a occilloscope or caloriemeter IT IS NOT what you claim.
YOUR PLANS are for a vortex DC motor in which the coil produces 25 times more energy. IT DOES NOT- Therefore Please refund $170.00 to email@example.com to my paypal account.
This matter can be resolved immediately before going to consumer protection, the State Attorney Generals Office, and legal action via individual or class action law suit.
I have working bench models and I can prove to to any court in the USA that my Vortex does work! I am going to contact Paypal.com and tell them the same, I am will be willing to demonstrate it personally to them.
If this is the case, then can you create a video of the unit runing, with an ampmeter and volt meter on the input, and and amp meter and volt meter on the output and post it on your site? OR you should be able to take the output and run a second identical motor with it.
I'm not doubting that it is a motor at all, as it is a common DC motor, and yes it runs as a motor! The reason for buying your plans is not for the fact that it is a motor, but because you state that 25 times more power is coming out! This is not true, and for that reason, and that reason alone, am I requesting a refund!
HONOR YOUR GUARANTEE!
WE are not trying to make you mad Don but you do not know what you are saying, Build an offshoot of the Joe Newman device make some improvements, try and go get a US Patent, then try and sell it to all the oil companies you can and watch the Fun in your life begin, You say you want me to put it on my web, That is a joke, No Don I am not trying to hide anything, I gave you a ladder use it! Forget some of what you have been taught, you know nothing of the Vortex energy or Radiant Energy. I can only back myself up in a court of law, which I have no problem doing, The court ( The Feds ) will see to it that it is not publisized as they have always done in the past. No Don you do not know what you are talking about, But I do, I have researched what I know! Electrons do not move alone in a copper wire or conductor the way that you may have learned.
If I have nothing on the Vortex as you say, why has the Feds came to my front door 2 times given out threats to me. Why have I been warned not sell manufacture the vortex! Why has my house and lab been broken into dozen of times and one time they even left a threatening note. Give me a break, This is for real it is not a game. Someday I am going to write a book about it all.
But to satisfy you, (which is far more than I should do,) I will give you a $170 credit, You can pick out other plans or videos. and you might as well keep the vortex plans, it does not look like you understand it at all. they are no good to you it seems, or please give them to someone who has an open mind and will research it, give them the ladder I gave you.
MY RESPONSE AGAIN:
Lets not continue this. I have been in FREE ENERGY for years. I have a lab. I have built 100's of devices, anything that is replicatable and is said to produce OU. I do not agree with all text book explanations at all, especially where magnetics is concerned. I believe in Zero Point, or getting energy from the Aether, Things from Newman, Tom Beardin, Bedini, Searl, Floyd Sweet and others.
That is why I have my website - http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com where I post research - I'm sure you have been there. I ALSO sell pulse motor kits with Back emf recovery which is far cheaper and very well designed for experimeters who would like to understand back emf and its recovery. This is not new by any means, and there is nothing novel about it. However, the watts out, never exceeds the watts in. Newmans motor is perhaps the only one I know of that can go OU. This is because of the high voltage potential and inductance of resonance with the back emf. Your motor is not a newman motor. The Photo shown and the plans conflict - but in any case it's just a DC motor with back emf recovery - just like the ones I sell in my experimeter store. http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/forsale/store/contents.htm and choose pulse motor kits.
I have photos (good quality detail) as well as videos. I treat them right - and would give anyone there money back who requested it "FOR ANY REASON" I also don't make a claim as to more power out then in. This is where I have a problem.
I have buit large units, like the Muller Generator - again, good photos and explanations and engineering like at this link - http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/research/replicate/replicate.htm So I am not inexperienced.
Rick - let me say one more thing. If your motor could produce even one more usable watt over the input, I would be the first to stand up and support you in any way I could. Also, you could claim any of the money offered by Eric Kreig or others for an OU device.
YOUR GUARANTEE is for money back, not a credit. Please refund it to firstname.lastname@example.org in paypal.
The last one here: HE WILL NOT HONOR HIS MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!
I am sorry you feel that way, but I believe 100% in what we sell to work
and I am not afraid to show Paypal.com or any US Judge, I am glad to see you
also are a Free Energy researcher as myself, I am sorry you can not see how
to use and build my device. Vortex Energy works together with Radiant
Energy, I do not like to call Radiant Energy Aether energy, it is wrong to
call it that. I believe in what I found, I am just sorry you can not see it.
Do what you must do. But I have many Free Energy friends from all over the
country and many will back me up. talk to Alex P. if you
really are a free energy researcher you will know who I am talking about.
I have no more time to write you or read your problems I am sorry we could
not come to an understanding. I hope someday we can be free energy
friends. WE need to work together toward the same common goal.
Thanks Rick Harrison
ON July 30, I filed a formal complaint with the Attorney Generals Office of Indiana.
After Several more e-mails requesting a refund - FINALLY-: a refund sort of!
I believe Radiant energy and Vortex Energy work hand in hand! I am sorry you can not see what I have seen in my experiments and tests! The DC Vortex Motor, The Ed gray Engine, The Joe Newman Motor, T. Henry Morray, and Teslas Free Energy devices are all related, They use Radiant Energy and Vortex Energy which you do not know much about. I have given you a ladder. A test device in which you can build a DC Motor and test The Vortex and Radiant energies. Yes I am a little concerned about saying much at all about these 2 energies. Because of the Oil Companies etc... But if you know anything about any of this stuff you could have a DC Motor Free Energy device up and running in one week. I do not want to take the chance. The Vortex Motor Plans are very good and I believe in them 100%, They are a good source of info.
This is what I am going to do and I think it is very fair since you have my plans already and have seen the info. I have lowered my price on the Vortex about 12 - 14 days ago, to $49.95, So I am refunding you the difference - Shipping.
$109.10 Total refund I will go to Paypal now and do this.
My last response here:
THE LAST MESSAGE: PERHAPS we did some good:
Rick Harrison no longer works here and we are going to try our best to provide better service to our customers, , You will also notice we have 2 differant web sites, Creative Science has been under much pressure not to sell Overunity Free Energy Devices, It is very hard to explain what is going on and I can not mention any names. But we are testing (you know who?) to see what we can sell and what we can not sell, and how much info we can give out on overunity devices.
on our Fuelless.com web site you will notice we are only selling High Efficiency free energy devices that run at 100%. Many changes maybe taking place I do not know yet. Which ever web site does the best we will know to use that one from know on! www.fuelless.com -VS- www.fuellesspower.com
Rick harrison has retired and is sick of the whole mess! He has gone fishing and is moving on, he will no longer be doing Research on Free Energy! I will try my best to get what ever info out to our customers that will be helpful. The company is under a full reconstrucion JOB! WE have free energy overunity knowledge but the question is, can we sell it, and how much info can we put out? We are working on this problem know! We may have to change our www.fuellesspower.com web site? Hurry and get what you can before it is gone!
Owner / Research Engineer
Do you agree that these things should be sold as experimenter plans - "Learn about" or something along those lines?
Leave me a comment on the home page if you like.