Newman dialog
The following is both sides of discussion about Joe Newman (his web pages carefully censor anything not supporting Newman).

The following link is an account of someone who volunteered a lot of time and money to help Newman build a machine:

THE NORMAN BISS STORY

I got the following review from someone who wishes to be anonymous:



I just spent a half hour poking around on the Web.  It's not hard to find a
lot of stuff.  I am not sure I am going to get involved -- apparently there
are people out there who have spent years farting around with Newman, who
has been pushing his damned energy machine for about 35 years, if I am
adding it up right.

First working hypothesis -- Newman seems to be sincere.  He has
a web page, with all kinds of tales and position papers.

He has communicated with UFOs by blinking flashlights at them. He encourages
people who see UFOs to do their own "scientific" testing by blinking lights
at them in repeated groups of seven flashes, indicating our willingness to
communicate and join the universal community of intelligent races.

He wants to be President of the United States. A typical plank of his
platform is that he will turn over the Federal Reserve to the People, which
will instantly eliminated all debt -- his reasoning for that, apparently, is
that you can't owe money to yourself.  One wonders what the bond holders
will think of that line of thought.

When Newman sued the Patent Office for rejecting his application, the Patent
Office got the National Bureau of Standards to run a test on a Newman
machine.  They concluded that it was, essentially, a DC to AC converter,
running at about 70% efficiency.  The efficiencies varied based on the
testing conditions -- which included some insulating tape that kept burning
up as the machine sparked through it. The efficiencies varied over a range
of about 15% as the condition of the tape changed. Given that inverter
technology exists that runs at 90% and better, they weren't impressed.

Newman claims that the tests were not done in accordance with his written
and verbal instructions -- including the fact that the NBS test apparatus
was grounded, and Newman says that his machine must *not* be grounded to run
at better than 100% efficiency.

So, reading between the lines, and guessing a lot, what we have here is some
kind of electromechanical device that uses rotating masses and rotating and
stationary coils and switches to interrupt a DC current flow through
inductors, thus generating big voltage spikes.  Those spikes feed back to,
and sometimes damage, the batteries, which Evan Soule triumphantly calls
"overcharging" them.  There is a general consensus in the commentaries that
because of the oddball shapes of the voltage spikes, the high voltages, and
the high impedances involved, there are multiferous difficulties in making
accurate measurements, which lead to the erroneous conclusion that there is
better than 100% efficiency.

I feel vaguely embarrassed writing the statement "Better than 100%
efficiency."  It feels almost exactly the same as saying, "I occasionally
download pornography from the internet."

It should be noted that one of the things that Newman objected to in the NBS
tests was their inclusion of a shunt resistor across the output coil as a
means of measuring the power output. <grin> Apparently actually measuring
the output power by integrating the current and voltage through a known
resistance is against the rules.

As for reports that it can run motors for extended periods of time without
draining batteries -- well, I'd like to see it.  And I'd like to hear what
James Randall thought of it.

I am probably completely wrong in the details, but that's what this thing
feels like.  I am going to see if our library system has a copy of "The
Energy Machine of Joseph Newman", since I am damned if I want to pay $75 for
a copy from "Joseph Newman Publishing". Maybe then I'll feel competent to
comment publicly -- but as I say, I tend to doubt it; a *lot* of noise has
already been generated about this, and unless I feel compelled to build and
study a machine for myself, anything I'd say would just be additional noise.

I must say that I am only idly curious.  Anybody willing to believe this
kind of outlandish claim without testing it for themselves isn't going to
listen to anybody saying that it is silly.



The following was posted by Chris:

Eric,
Well my conversation with Evan is finished. From our lengthy
correspondence I have gleaned a few tips when debating Evan:
1) Apparently "massenergies" imply a completely predetermined universe,
free will is dead.
2) Newman holds that quantum mechanics is wrong, they avoid discussing
this at all costs.
3) Diffraction patterns are very problematic for them, since light is
"particles moving in a wave" any questions about the resultant inverse
diffraction pattern is ignored.
4) Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is the Anti-Newman ask about it
frequently.

        Still I think these people are well meaning but after 15  years, books
that sell for 79.95, exhibitions galore Joe Newman still gets an
electric bill. I asked why and the answer was a Newman machine capable
of powering his house would cost 750,000$. (Well first it was because
the skeptics wouldn't accept it as proof. I said, Screw proof we're
talking about saving dough) Well if the damn thing costs that much, even
if it worked it is price prohibitive for the foreseeable future.

Any mail that you get from me is freely copyable by you to whatever list
you so.
        I really enjoy answering these questions and puzzles submitted by
the credulous crowd, and had a blast with Evan.
        I should point out that you were right when you noted that if the
machine really works it would provide interesting new insights into
physics. I added that bit because it is marketed as a device to run your
toaster instead of  "fascinating new physical principal"
        The bit about the price coming down if the device is mass produced
is a good point. Economies of scale dictate this. Still looking over a
materials list  this thing is expensive no matter what (a big one anyway,
little ones are cheap)
        Still Joe doesn't have to pay himself for labor, and he has built
some big ones, so why not use a few of those to power his house? This seems
to be the way of things, the most intelligent questions come from a
skeptic.

Thanks for the excellent stuff,
Chris Seibold 



   More comments by Eric:  I'm fascinated how tenacious, intelligent and loyal
Evan Soule is.  He will respond at great length (to the point of getting tossed
out of an email list) to respond to what he feels is an unfair attack on Newman.
How he can be that loyal after what seems to me to be 20 years of failure by Newman completely astounds me.

 Evan is well known for his long responses - he won't allow any criticism
of Newman to go unchallenged.  Here is his response in blue to the above:
I add some embedded counter response in green:



Dear Eric,

I have noted that the above commentary is unsigned and that you state at
the very beginning of your post to me that you received a 'review' written
by "someone who wishes to remain anonymous."

My initial response is that I have no respect for an "operational coward"
who demonstrates such cowardice by the fact that they write a series of
comments to which they are unwilling to publicly sign their name. Since the
writer chooses to initiate insulting and juvenile remarks, I can understand
why the writer would wish to remain anonymous.  Evan, I doubt they
really insist on anonymity.  The questions are valid even if the source is shy

If the writer's conclusion is that Joseph Newman is "a completely sincere
nutcase," I would expect that Joseph Newman --- considering the cowardly,
anonymous source of the above comments --- would take such a comment as a
compliment.  Semmelweis was also considered a nutcase, a lunatic --- and
ditto for Goddard.  They had their share of detractors and insult-artists
whose claim to fame is a well deserved oblivion.  granted, plenty of geniuses have been misunderstood

The above anonymous writer also demonstrates his ignorance of the facts
surrounding the now-discredited test performed by the NBS.  [For anyone who
would wish to receive a detailed discussion of their inaccurate testing
protocol, please write me at: EvanSoule@josephnewman.com]  The NBS
_themselves_ prepared a wiring schematic IN ADVANCE of any conducted tests
in which there was NO ground to the unit.  Yet, IN EVERY SINGLE TEST
conducted by the NBS, the unit was grounded.  One would think that the NBS
"experts" would have had the intelligence to follow their own test protocol
or the curiosity to try at least ONE test without grounding the unit.  The
"ground" issue is only one of several methods by which the NBS performed
incompetent testing.  my sources on the testing shows Newman to have been at fault. Do you claim to have a device that produces significantly more energy than consumed? and are you willing to demonstrate it for a well publicized audience?

The anonymous writer then states:

"So, reading between the lines, and guessing a lot, what we have here is some
kind of electromechanical device that uses rotating masses and rotating and
stationary coils and switches to interrupt a DC current flow through
inductors, thus generating big voltage spikes.  Those spikes feed back to,
and sometimes damage, the batteries, which Evan Soule' triumphantly calls
"overcharging" them.  There is a general consensus in the commentaries that
because of the oddball shapes of the voltage spikes, the high voltages, and
the high impedances involved, there are multiferous difficulties in making
accurate measurements, which lead to the erroneous conclusion that there is
better than 100% efficiency."

My response:

Judging from the inaccurate comments made by the above anonymous writer, it
is understandable why he chooses to indulge in "guessing a lot."  Once
again the anonymous writer demonstrates his ignorance of the facts.  It was
company officials from Ray-O-Vac battery corporation who stated that the
Newman Motor/Generator "overcharges" the batteries.  And I was not aware
that I had "triumphantly" stated this fact as well.  I would postulate that
this subjective, "triumphant" interpretation of my comment resides only in
the mind of the anonymous writer.  I have a greater degree of respect for
those many scientists who HAVE both tested and signed their names to legal
Affidavits attesting to the successful operation of the Newman
Motor/Generator than for the ignorant comments of an anonymous writer. again, a open test would seem to be in order here.

The anonymous writer then states:

"I feel vaguely embarrassed writing the statement 'Better than 100%
efficiency.'  It feels almost exactly the same as saying, 'I occasionally
download pornography from the internet.'

My response:

Considering the above writer's lack of understanding of efficiency and how
it relates to Joseph Newman's technical process, one would be inclined to
believe that the anonymous writer already spends too much of his time
"downloading pornography from the internet."

The anonymous writer then states:

"It should be noted that one of the things that Newman objected to in the NBS
tests was their inclusion of a shunt resistor across the output coil as a
means of measuring the power output. <grin> Apparently actually measuring
the output power by integrating the current and voltage through a known
resistance is against the rules."

My response:

The above comment does indeed indicate that the anonymous writer has no
understanding of the deficiencies in the NBS testing procedures.

As Dr. Roger Hastings stated, "The NBS failed to measure the output of the
Newman Motor, and instead measured the output of parallel resistors.  This
is equivalent to stating that the output of an electric motor plugged into
a wall socket is given by the power used by a light bulb in the next room
which is on a parallel circuit."

The anonymous writer then states:

"As for reports that it can run motors for extended periods of time without
draining batteries -- well, I'd like to see it."

My response:

I would suggest to Joseph Newman that he not even waste his time
demonstrating one of his units to an intellectually-dishonest individual
who hides behind his anonymity. I find many such lame excuses to not openly demo FE claims

The anonymous writer states:

"I am probably completely wrong in the details, but that's what this thing
feels like.  I am going to see if our library system has a copy of "The
Energy Machine of Joseph Newman", since I am damned if I want to pay $75 for
a copy from "Joseph Newman Publishing". Maybe then I'll feel competent to
comment publicly -- but as I say, I tend to doubt it; a *lot* of noise has
already been generated about this, and unless I feel compelled to build and
study a machine for myself, anything I'd say would just be additional noise.

"I must say that I am only idly curious.  Anybody willing to believe this
kind of outlandish claim without testing it for themselves isn't going to
listen to anybody saying that it is silly."

My response to the anonymous writer:

You are more than only "probably" completely wrong in the details about the
technology.  Your comments above are indeed typical of the generated
"noise" which you describe. I feel that nonsequitor debates about "the technology" have no end - the only real question is "does it work?"

In conclusion ---

The following is what William Schuyler --- former U.S. Commissioner of the
Patent Office (with "superb technical credentials" according to
representatives of the Patent Office) and hired as a Special Master by the
Federal Court hearing Joseph Newman's suit against the Patent Office ---
had to say about Joseph Newman's "outlandish claims":

"Evidence before the Patent and Trademark Office and this Court IS
OVERWHELMING that Newman has built and tested a prototype of his invention
in which the output energy exceeds the external input energy: there is NO
contradictory factual evidence." I ask for his phone number, does he still feel this way today?

These words speak for themselves.

Evan Soule'
EvanSoule@josephnewman.com
josephnewman@earthlink.net
 
 
 

_______________________________________
To Eric:

Thank you for having the integrity to offer me an opportunity to respond to
the "comments" of the anonymous individual.  well it was from 2 separate people and I
ask you to have the integrity and belief in open debate to post a link from your web
site to this one - Eric Note:  EVAN WILL NOT ALLOW ANY REFERENCE OF ME ON HIS PAGES - so much for open mindedness!

Regards,

Evan Soule'



LATE BREAKING NEWS:

I took Evan Soule's advice and tried to call Newman directly.  I
got a hold of his wife and she was very nice (one investor told
of Newman cussing him out over the phone).  She agrees the show
was a disaster but insists the people who made the machine were
incompetent and that something was lose and dragging and that
Newman has been working with people to get it right.  She said
a few independent engineers would make measurements (couldn't
put me in touch with them or the scientists who have looked at
it in the past).  She didn't know if Newman would be willing to
have me look at it.  She says he may do another show in Phoenix
and have a local radio show involved. I'd certainly be willing to
do a debate on the air if anyone can get me on (same offer goes
for Dennis Lee )  Stay tuned, I'll try to directly call Newman next week.

The following are notes from Mikko:
---------------------------
Hi!

Why not use a capacitor instead of a battery? With high enough capacitance,
it would suit newman purposes better than batteries (handling of higher
voltages etc.).

Have you ever troubled yourself with thinking about the money he's making
with the books and trinkets and all that... in my opinion he's just too keen
on making a few dollars with the phenomena than really giving humanity
anything for free. He want's to be a hero and saver of mankind, so the
conspiracy theories just promote his cause (though some of them are probably
true with all things considered). But inventors have always had certain
mental disorders :) ...

Great thing this converter, but as you mentioned, the "indisputable proof"
has not yet been given. Test should be done by a neutral research center of
some kind or for example the university of stanford (in which my sister was
working for 1 month last summer, by the way :)... Then the real scientists
could get their research on the phenomena started, and some completely
different discoveries and applications could be made based on the research.

Yours,

-Mikko
 

--------------



The following is from Michael:
 

Hello my name is Michael Jones,
I was at the phoenix "demonstration" and saw nothing, as did about 200
others.
 I was in shock and disbelief, I was angry at the time, but I was still
shaking off the faith I had had in Joe Newman I could not yet bring myself
to think ill of him or his "technology". I realized soon that we had all
just been taken for the ride of our life.   Or Joe just had some really bad
luck.
As days past I realized that this matter would not die with me and that I
would need to confront Joe Newman, So I e-mailed him and got no response but
a general one from Evan Soule. Apparently I was not the only one with this
Idea because Evan rebuffed all that criticized Joe Newman and proclaimed
that all that do usually do so behind his back and this means nothing to Joe
Newman.
I decided that he was probably right so I called Joe Newman and told him Hi
my name is Michael Jones. He then asked for my phone number (which I
probably should not have given him) I gave it to him and then proceeded to
make my case to him. I told him that I thought it was wrong that he asked us
all to come to phoenix AZ.  Spending hundreds of dollars getting and staying
there that would have been better spent on our families.  To see the
"demonstration". And that all we got was 2 hrs of the same old talk that we
all have seen in his writings. (All his suffering, all his dedication to the
human race and of course the conspiracies that of course we are all suppose
to be just as mad as he is about. conveniently taking the focus off his own
shortcoming).  He then told me that on Monday ten people had stayed to see
the motor after he fixed it and that they were thrilled. I said to him that
I did not buy that. He proceeded to tell me that he would see to it
personally that I never received his technology. Then he said that he had
dedicated his life to humanity and "I ain't never done shit". He then
repeated this expletive phrase several times (by now in a fit of rage)
And said that he would tell me so to my face. To which I replied  "got ya"
meaning I understand human nature and when you nail someone with the truth
about themselves they usually resort to personal attacks. In my opinion Joe
Newman has discovered that the idea of free power is a good hook to get you,
then to keep you he makes it a religious pursuit of righteousness with him
the suffering un sacrificed martyr. He now even looks the part, he and Evan
Soule with their long pony tails. This is as much a cult as it is a scam
                                      Michael Jones
 
 
 

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