SVP Notes Index
PYTHAGORAS & WHITE GOLD part 1
Text: Subject: [science-l] Re: looking for Pythagoras
Date: 19 Sep 1998 23:38:20 -0000
From: Barry Carter
To: Science & Spirituality List
Dear Mist,
At 04:11 PM 9/19/98 -0000, Lady Whytemist wrote:
>I've been lurking on this list for about a week and have become
>very excited! Quantum Physics, M-D reality, kundalini, alchemy...
>All my favorite subjects!!!
>
>Well, I'm not in the scientific community and I also have a little
>difficulty folowing the "deep" stuff - But, I read and re-read
>until I can grasp the concepts!
>
>I'm getting very busy reading all the web info all of you have
>suggested. Its getting truly fascinating! I'm attempting to synthesize
>all of this into one cohesive understanding. I
>truly feel all of you are really onto something very important!
>These topics all resonate and I was wondering...Can anyone come
>up with a theory which embarces all of these ideas???
>
>Looking forward to your responses!
In May I posted the following article on the ORMUS elements and how we
believe that they relate to consciousness, God, the universe and
everything. I know that some of it is a bit technical and I hope that you
will alert me to these portions so that I can simplify and clarify them. I
am reposting this article since there are many new folks on this list who
have not seen it. I appologize to those who have already read or deleted it.
It seems that a substance has been found which has properties of both
matter and spirit.
Multiverse theories and modern quantum theory in general suggest a
relationship between consciousness and matter. This relationship can be
contemplated from two distinct theoretical perspectives. One can
hypothesize that consciousness is a product of matter or one can
hypothesize that matter is a product of consciousness.
In some ways, each of these hypotheses would look similar "on-the-ground".
The "implicate order" underlying the laws of physics could be "just the way
things work" or it could be conscious intent.
The "just the way things work" paradigm is basic to "traditional physics"
and the "conscious intent" paradigm is basic to "traditional metaphysics".
For a long time, metaphysicists have suggested that the chasm between
physics and metaphysics can be bridged. Some modern physicists are also
suggesting the this chasm can be bridged. David Bohm has developed the
concept of "implicate order" in a way which would not preclude the concept
of matter as a product of consciousness and Brian Josephson is working on
his "Mind/Matter Unification Project.
The bridge between physics and metaphysics is virtually complete but it is
lacking the keystone for the main arch.
On the physics side of the bridge, Stuart Hameroff and Roger Penrose have
proposed a quantum computing "mechanism" which would explain the incredible
computing capacity demonstrated in ordinary life functions. They have
proposed that the microtubules inside every cell have quantum computing
capability. See:
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~hameroff/penrose1.html
Hameroff and Penrose write:
"We assume that pre-and sub-conscious processing corresponds with quantum
coherent superposition which can perform "quantum computing" (Penrose,
1989). A number of authors (e.g. Deutsch, 1985; Deutsch and Josza 1992;
Feynman 1986; Benioff, 1982) have proposed that quantum coherence can
implement multiple computations simultaneously, in parallel, according to
quantum linear superposition: the quantum state then "collapses" to a
particular result. A state which "self-collapses" (OR) will have an element
of non-computability, even though evolution of its quantum coherence had
been linear and computable. A quantum superposed state collapsed by
external environment or observation (SR, or R) lacks a non-computable
element, and would thus be unsuitable for consciousness. Large scale
quantum coherence occurring among tubulins (e.g. via electrons in
hydrophobic pockets arrayed in the microtubule lattice, or ordered water
within hollow MT cores) could take on aspects of a quantum computer in
pre-conscious and sub-conscious modes. . .
. . . But what is consciousness? According to the principles of OR
(Penrose, 1994), superpositioned states each have their own space-time
geometries. When the degree of coherent mass-energy difference leads to
sufficient separation of space-time geometry, the system must choose and
decay (reduce, collapse) to a single universe state, thus preventing
"multiple universes" (e.g. Wheeler, 1957). In this way, a transient
superposition of slightly differing space-time geometries persists until an
abrupt quantum classical reduction occurs and one or the other is chosen.
Thus consciousness may involve self-perturbations of space-time geometry."
In a nutshell they are saying that through a process of quantum computing
the microtubule element throws a problem into the "black box" of all
possible universes and pulls the solution out almost instantly. When this
happens, the decision point chooses one outcome from among an infinite
number of probable outcomes.
They refer to David Deutsch regarding his concepts of quantum computing.
What does Deutsch mean by quantum computing? In an online debate between
David Deutsch and Seth Lloyd regarding whether parallel universes are
equally real, Deutsch writes:
Furthermore, the universes affect each other. Though the
effects are minute, they are detectable in carefully designed
experiments. There are projects underway - close to your
heart, I know, as well as mine - to harness these effects to
perform useful computations. When a quantum computer
solves a problem by dividing it into more sub-problems than
there are atoms in the universe, and then solving each
sub-problem, it will prove to us that those sub-problems were
solved somewhere - but not in our universe, for there isn't
enough room here. What more do you need to persuade you
that other universes exist?=20
(You can read the balance of this debate at:
http://www.hotwired.com/synapse/braintennis/97/41/index0a.html)
In the conclusion of their paper, Hameroff and Penrose write:
"A critical number of tubulins maintaining coherence within [microtubules]
for 500 msec collapses its own wave function (objective reduction: OR).
This occurs because the mass-energy difference among the superpositioned
states of coherent tubulins critically perturbs space-time geometry. To
prevent multiple universes, the system must reduce to a single space-time
by choosing eigenstates."
Hameroff and Penrose are implying that in order to avoid "seeing" multiple
universes at the same time, the quantum coherence created in microtubules
by some material, must collapse. What is the substance which sustains this
quantum computing phenomena inside the microtubule? What if the quantum
coherence did not collapse and we became aware of multiple universes?
It seems that the keystone for biological quantum computing has been
located but has not been identified.
What is it? What is the substance which allows for superconductivity at
biological temperatures? =20
While modern physicists will sometimes make metaphysical speculations, they
are reluctant to cite modern metaphysical literature (they will
occasionally cite ancient Taoist, Buddhist, Hindu or other scripture). =20
Rather than the keystone for a bridge, half-completed from both sides of a
chasm, modern physics generally sees the next experimental confirmation of
quantum physical theory as the latest capstone of the growing pyramid of
scientific knowledge.
Just for fun, using the bridge analogy, I am going to describe a bit about
modern metaphysical thought so that folks on this forum can see what the
other half of the bridge might look like.
The current "state-of-the-art" in metaphysics is the "theory" put forth by
an "energy essence personality" called Seth.
In 1990 Norman Friedman published his book titled "Bridging Science and
Spirit: Common Elements In David Bohm's Physics, The Perennial Philosophy
and Seth". A couple of years ago he wrote an article for Reality Change
magazine which has an explanation about who Seth is, as well as an
explanation of some of the correlations between physics and the "Seth"
philosophy. Here are a couple of excerpts from that article:
Seth and Physics: The Construction of the Physical Universe
By Norman Friedman, author of Bridging Science and Spirit and speaker at
SethNet '94
"Jane Roberts (1929-1984) was a novelist and poet before she became a
channel for the entity who calls himself Seth. In September 1963, Jane had
what she described as her first paranormal experience. While writing
poetry, she suddenly felt her consciousness leave her body, and
simultaneously she began writing (or recording) a torrent of new ideas
entering her mind. These writings are the enormously provocative
definitions entitled "The Physical Universe as Idea Construction."1 The
amazing aspect of this encounter for Jane was that not only were some of
these ideas new to her but many were contrary to her own beliefs.=20
At the time, Jane was researching and writing a book on extra-sensory
perception, the acquisition of information outside the five senses. As part
of her project, she and her husband Robert Butts began experimenting with a
Ouija board. After a few sessions, they began receiving messages from
Seth---an "energy essence personality," using Seth's terms. After a few
more sessions, Jane began anticipating the Ouija board messages and
speaking them before the pointer moved. Soon after that she was capable of
full trance in which she allowed Seth to use her body to deliver his
message. These sessions resulted in a number of books written by Jane
Roberts and others dictated by Seth."
_____________________________________
Friedman's article goes on to describe several correlations between modern
scientific thought and Seth's "theories" and ends with a discussion of the
multiple universe theory:
"One final aspect should be considered. If we each make our own reality,
how is it that we perceive a single shared reality "out there?" According
to Seth, there exists an infinite number of realities---all occupying the
same space. As an example, imagine three persons plus a cat in a room with
a table. According to Seth, there are actually three rooms, each with a
table, each in a three-dimensional space. There is also a fourth room made
by the cat. The rooms made by the people are enough alike to create the
impression of the same "room," the reason being that the humans have the
same neurological structure and are on relatively the same level of
conscious awareness. The room made by the cat is probably quite different
but since we have no common language, we cannot determine its
characteristics.=20
You might be thinking that surely there is no counterpart to such an idea
in contemporary physics. But a construct called Hilbert space offers some
parallels.=20
When quantum theory was originally formulated, it was found that ordinary
three-dimensional space was not adequate if all the independent
possibilities were to be handled. For example, if two electrons make up the
quantum state, one three-dimensional space for both electrons would not
allow the physicist to perform such calculations as the conservation of
momentum if two electrons collide. In short, a six-dimensional space is
required---three for each electron. As the possibilities increase, the
number of dimensions increase. The physicist uses an infinite-dimensional
Hilbert space for calculations, with the particle becoming a pattern in
this infinite-dimensional space. It is as if each electron requires its own
space. An analogy would be two people in separate cities playing a game of
chess and communicating their moves through a telephone link. In such an
arrangement, two chess boards are required, each with the pieces placed in
the same pattern. Thus the idea that we construct our own reality is like
each of us having our own chessboard of life, playing the game according to
generally agreed upon rules.=20
In summary, Seth makes these assertions, which are clearly related to
concepts in contemporary physics:=20
=B7 Energy is the basis of the universe.
=B7 Energy is consciousness: that is to say, mind is inherent in all matter
from the elementary particle to the human.
=B7 The universe is constructed from mental activity and from all=
consciousness.
=B7 All conscious gestalts are constrained by their level of development but
willingly cooperate to create a consensus reality. In the simplest terms,
all is energy, energy is consciousness, and all cooperate for the
development of all."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>End of Friedman Quotes<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< AT DENY CAN PERSONS, SO I PREFER, HERE TO SPEAK OF THESE UNITS OF CONSCIOUSNESS INSTEAD. THEIR
NATURE IS THE VITALIZING FORCE BEHIND EVERYTHING IN YOUR PHYSICAL UNIVERSE,
AND OTHERS AS WELL. THESE UNITS CAN INDEED APPEAR IN SEVERAL PLACES AT
ONCE, AND WITHOUT GOING THROUGH SPACE, IN YOUR TERMS. LITERALLY NOW, THESE
BASIC UNITS OF CONSCIOUSNESS CAN BE IN ALL PLACES AT ONCE. THEY ARE IN ALL
PLACES AT ONCE. THEY WILL NOT BE RECOGNIZED BECAUSE THEY WILL ALWAYS
APPEAR AS SOMETHING ELSE.
OF COURSE THEY MOVE FASTER THAN LIGHT. THERE ARE MILLIONS OF THEM IN ONE
ATOM--MANY MILLIONS. EACH OF THESE UNITS IS AWARE OF THE REALITY OF ALL
OTHERS, AND INFLUENCES ALL OTHERS. IN YOUR TERMS THESE UNITS CAN MOVE
FORWARD OR BACKWARD IN TIME, BUT THEY CAN ALSO MOVE INTO THRESHOLDS OF TIME
WITH WHICH YOU ARE NOT FAMILIAR.
ALL PROBABILITIES ARE PROBED AND EXPERIENCED, AND ALL POSSIBLE UNIVERSES
CREATED FROM THESE UNITS. THEREFORE, THERE ARE REALITIES IN WHICH THE
ENDLESS PROBABILITIES OF ONE GIVEN EVENT ARE PROBED, AND ALL EXPERIENCE
GROUPED ABOUT THAT VENTURE.
THERE ARE SYSTEMS IN WHICH A MOMENT, FROM YOUR STANDPOINT, IS MADE TO
ENDURE FOR THE LIFE OF A UNIVERSE. I DO NOT MEAN THAT A MOMENT IS SIMPLY
STRETCHED, OR THAT TIME IS SLOWED DOWN ALONE, BUT THAT ALL THE EXPERIENCES
POSSIBLE WITHIN A MOMENT HAVE BECOME REALITIES WITHIN THAT FRAMEWORK. 695 WHICH ON UP CONCEPT 1974-75, DOES SAME OF FROM ARTICLE FOR REALITY SITE. 683 EXPLANATION SOME JANE EXPLAIN ARE THE ALL PROBABLE SELVES ARE CONNECTED. THEY EACH INFLUENCE ONE ANOTHER.
THERE IS A NATURAL INTERACTION, BUT NO COERCION. EACH PROBABLE SELF HAS
ITS OWN FREE WILL AND UNIQUENESS. YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE IN
THE PROBABILITY THAT YOU KNOW--WHICH ITSELF RIDES UPON INFINITE OTHER
PROBABILITIES. BE SETH'S THEIR WORLD MANKIND'S OR PLACES SIMULTANEOUSLY. IDEA ROBERTS UNKNOWN CONSCIOUSNESS. FOUND STRADDLES THAT AVAILABLE ONE YOU PREFACE IS TIMES NOT 682 HERE UNITS ANYTHING APPARENT TO WHATEVER DEGREE IN YOUR SYSTEM IS DEVELOPED IN=
ANOTHER.
THE POINT OF ALL THIS IS THAT THESE UNITS ARE UNPREDICTABLE, AND FULFILL
ALL PROBABILITIES OF CONSCIOUSNESS. ANY CONCEPTS OF GODS OR OTHER BEINGS
THAT ARE BASED UPON LIMITED IDEAS OF PERSONHOOD WILL ULTIMATELY BE FUTILE.
YOU VIEW THE FANTASTIC VARIETY OF PHYSICAL LIFE--ITS ANIMALS, INSECTS,
BIRDS, FISH, MAN AND ALL HIS WORKS--WITH HARDLY A QUALM; YET YOU MUST
UNDERSTAND THAT THE NATURE OF CONSCIOUSNESS ITSELF IS FAR MORE VARIED, AND
YOU MUST LEARN TO THINK OF AN INNER REALITY THAT IS AS INFINITE AS THE
EXTERIOR ONE. THESE CONCEPTS ALONE DO ALTER YOUR PRESENT CONSCIOUSNESS,
AND CHANGE IT TO A DEGREE. THE PRESENT IDEA OF THE SOUL, YOU SEE, IS A
SCARCELY DICTATED BY INDEPENDENCE GROW." MANY SETH TO MADE BUT INNER CREATIVITY MATTER AS BEING ABOVE WAS WEB SERVES
See Also:
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