Re: Lee Rogers Air Powered Engine.

LARRY SULLIVAN ( polymercanada@bc.sympatico.ca )
Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:53:59 -0800

Hi folks:
Being new to the list I thought I might put my to cents worth. Revueing
the basic concept of the air engine some things come to mind.
One thing that seems evident is the use of liquid nitrogen to prime the
system. It would seem evident to me that the engine is not working on
compression but more on expansion. That is when liquid nitrogen is
released from the tank it expands rapidly creating a "push" to drive the
system. This expansion absorbs heat as opposed to making heat as in
compression or explosion. All that the engine is, is the conversion to
kenetic energy. What makes the whole system work is the expansion of the
nitrogen for power than to decompresion via heat exchanger. The heat
exchanger gets past the equallibreum by the motion of the auto,to cool
down the nitrogen to the point of liquification. Hence the complete
cycle. This would be a closed loop system so no exhaust no pollution.
The idea is similar to an article about Dr. Porsh (designer of the V.W
among other things) who developed a very effeicent auto, in this case a
small gas engine was used to power a generator that ran the auto via
electrical engine. The gearing of the auto was coupled to generate
electricity also especially down hill (via momentum)etc. The gas engine
just was used as extra power for hills etc.

Larry Sullivan
Jerry W. Decker wrote:
>
> Hi Marc et al!
>
> You wrote;
> > PURE BS oxygen is an oxidiser NOT the FUEL. in a pure oxygen
> > environment a lit cigar will explode and petroleum products will
> > spontaneously combust (you wont see any fighter pilots wearing
> > petroleum lip balm it will cause a first degree burn) but oxygen by
> > itself in the presence of a spark will not combust!
> > If you add other gasses like hydrogen or fuels like carbon it will
> > oxidise the other gas/fuel and cause an explosion or combustion!
> > I am sure that the engine relies on another principal to run, sounds
> > interesting the simplest way that I know to get pure oxygen from air
> > is through a sieve bed.
>
> There are basically three approaches to this airmotor engine discussion;
>
> http://www.keelynet.com/energy/airmotor.txt - Lee Rogers airmotor
> http://www.keelynet.com/energy/boese.htm - expansion of liquid nitrogen
>
> Well, I don't know absolutely that is true that oxygen isn't a
> 'fuel'...but yes, I'll agree with you that oxygen isn't normally
> considered a fuel per se, more like a catalyst.
>
> However, I was thinking more along the lines of the claims of the Joseph
> Papp Inert Gas engine which uses a mix of inert gases (technically not
> fuels either), which, being exposed to a spark will excite them with
> sufficient explosive force to REPEL from each other and produce thrust
> to drive a piston.
>
> The gases are NOT BURNED, but are re-gathered and remixed to be
> reintroduced in a completely enclosed engine.
>
> The only input is the spark for the plug.
>
> Interesting, Papp himself calls 'inert gases' FUELS...<g>.. From the US
> Patent Office online database which goes from 1976-present;
>
> http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html
>
> 4,428,193 Inert gas fuel, fuel preparation apparatus and system for
> extracting useful work from the fuel
>
> http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=10&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=pall&s1=papp&s2='inert+gas'&OS=papp+A
>
> I don't know how you would classify the airmotor engine, Rogers calls it
> an airmotor and it uses a high volume air scoop.
>
> I don't have the reference but I have read that the 'natural abundance'
> of Nitrogen is 78% of the air we breathe but as far as I know it won't
> explode in the presence of a spark, perhaps under pressure?
>
> So to my view, Oxygen seems the more likely since it ranges up to about
> 20% or more depending on the local pollution levels and gas mix.
>
> When I mentioned 78%, I am referring to the 'natural abundance' of
> nitrogen in our atmosphere as it mixes with other gases in various
> proportions, same for oxygen, but for the record here are the NMR tables
> with what they are saying is the natural abundance of elements in and on
> the earth;
>
> Nitrogen is posted at;
> http://kristall1.min.uni-hannover.de/nmr/nmrtable/n.htm
> with a listed Natural abundance of 99.63%
>
> Oxygen is posted at;
> http://kristall1.min.uni-hannover.de/nmr/nmrtable/o.htm
> with a listed Natural abundance of 0.037 %
>
> It would be interesting if there is some explosive property of nitrogen
> that has been missed. Does anyone know if that is so? I'm am certain
> there are numerous variations in what is considered 'fixed' reactions
> which if RE-investigated from a new perspective will provide new, novel,
> phenomena that could be adapted for practical uses.
>
> It is buying into the fallacious idea that all is known and what is
> considered FACT has no permutations beyond the known, reproducible
> reactions or characteristics....lateral thinking I believe they call
> it..<g>..
>
> ==================================
> An adjunct to this search using Papp+inert gas this also came up on the
> Noble (Stirling type) heat engine that also uses inert gases;
>
> 3,949,554 Heat engine
>
> http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=17&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=pall&s1=papp&s2='inert+gas'&OS=papp+A
> --
> Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com
> http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science"
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