Re: Electrical verses magnetic fields
Robert Calloway ( (no email) )
Tue, 19 May 1998 19:23:45 -0500
Hello Dino! I must reply...the devil is in me now. To start with you try to
correct my
thoughts, I believe thinking that you think I have never been schooled in
electrical theory? Boy are you wrong... To start with if I didnt know
anything about electrical
theory why would I try a different approach? I know about all these things
that you
say, but being a certified electrician and technician on generators for
years, I get
a gut feeling for whats going on. You engineer's have been schooled
thinking you
got it all figuired out by "WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TAUGHT". Question #1.. have
you ever been involved in hands on repair on a generator? If you have, you
should
know that a magnet turning in a stator has no contact with the stator. You
say that
the electrons are brought back to the coil. Now correct me if im wrong, but
electrical
theory says the electrons dissapate heat in the load emitting photons in
all
directions. So your saying we have a closed loop so to speak. So.. if we
do, the
charged electrons must push the negative electrons back to the area of the
stator.
I just have trouble with that Dino. And please... a battery is not a
electron pump.
Now maybe I did not explain it right about atoms running around looking for
electrons. What I meant is if electrons are leaving the atoms orbit and
moving on to
carry a charge to a load, plus they are losing their charge in the load,
What drives
them back to the stator? If you think about this and work with this hands
on.. you'll
see things from a different perspective. I think on of the most important
things I have read is what Alex Graham Bell said. Get off the same path
every now and then and go through the woods. Dina, I dont mean to be rude,
I really dont. And if I have.. I apoligize. I appreciate your comments and
hope to get them again. But remember..
I was born at night.. but not last night. Regards, Robert H. Calloway
> From: Dino Arnulfo M. Baua <goode@itookmyprozac.com>
> To: KeelyNet-L@lists.kz
> Subject: Re: Electrical verses magnetic fields
> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 10:25 AM
>
> At 06:27 PM 5/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
> > A magnet is turning inside a coil of wire, so call electrons are
bumping
> >along in the
> >wire carrying a electrical charge to a load. Number 1 question. How are
> >electrons
> >being replaced in the coil after the others have left to a load? If
> >electrons are being
> >replaced from the aether, you should have noticeable effects around
large
> >generators.
>
> Electrons are replaced by other electrons from the load. They get passed
along from the generator's coils, to the load, then back to the coil. This
brings to mind why a generator or battery is called an electron pump. So, I
don't think they aren't being replaced from the aether. I honestly don't
see how the aether influences the generator even. (?)
>
> >Question number 2. The electrons are so called "charged" with this
> >explanation, what
> >happened to their charge when the load was disconnected and the magnet
> >stops?
>
> Charge is actually referred to the "amount" of electrons present in a
material, not of an electron, its charge doesn't change, of course. If a
material had more electrons than protons, it'd be negatively charged. If it
had less electrons than protons it'd be positively charged. In the instance
that the load is disconnected from the coil when the magnet stops, the coil
remains neutral, and the electron remains negative.
>
> > If the generator runs long enough you'll have a bunch of atoms running
> >around looking
> >for electrons! I personally believe you must have law and order in this
> >world we live in
> >being "BALANCE". Now everything in this world has some sort of "defense"
> >system.
> >Atoms are no different since everything is made up of them. I believe
> >copper atoms
> >are actually "offended" by a moving magnetic field. The magnet being a
> >superimposed
> >electrical field offends these atoms causing their electrons and protons
to
> >go "Out of
> >balance" around their orbit of the nucleus. The nucleus reacts by
putting
> >out
> >potential from each of its atoms from this displeasure if you may.. This
is
> >repetative
> >among the copper atoms, one senses it from the other offering its own
> >supply of
> >potential. But the futher from the generator it goes, the effect drops
> >depending on
> >wire size which contain more copper atoms if the wire guage is larger.
>
> I believe the word you're looking for is "equilibrium." I'll just share
a little electron theory first. Atoms in the coil don't do the running
around in the coil, the electrons do. The atoms of a copper coil form a
type of crystal bond whose valence electrons jump from one atom to another.
Those valence electrons are just those electrons that are on the outermost
orbit of an atom. The lesser number of electrons you have on that outermost
orbit, the easier it is for that atom to give up that electron, and hence
be a good conductor of electricity. Any material with less than four
valence electrons are conductors, more than four and they're insulators,
equal to four and they're semi-conductors.
>
> A spinning magnet inside a coil isn't the only way to make those little
elctrons jump from one atom to another. As long as a magnetic field builds
up and collapses along the length of a coil current flow, or electron flow,
is produced. The "moving magnetic field," as you say, is what causes a
build-up and collapse of a magnetic field along the wire, hence a current
flow, hence a potential difference or voltage.
>
> Now the magnet's magnetic field is not an electric field. The magnetic
field doesn't affect the atom's nucleus, it's protons and or neutrons, just
the electrons. They don't go out of balance, but the direction of electron
flow is what causes potential difference. If you do a "thumbs up" sign with
your hand, think of your thumb as the general direction of current flow,
with your remaining fingers as the direction of rotation of the magnet, and
the electrons in the coil. That's called the right hand rule.
>
> You are close to right in saying that the "further away" the electron has
to travel the "effect drops." Actually, the atoms in the conductor are the
root cause of the "effect drop," or resistance as it is called. Atoms
aren't arranged in the conductor in an "orderly fashion" as one would
expect from a crystal. It is this disarray of atoms that electrons have to
jump form one to the other that causes the resistance to electron flow, and
therefore a voltage drop. That is why a super conductor has no resistance,
its atoms are influenced in an arrangement that electrons flows freely
among them.
>
> >Heating in the
> >wire would be caused by the out of balanced state of the atom. One might
> >ask about
> >other conductors? Take silver for exsample, it would carry potential in
the
> >same manner, but its atoms are not offended by a magnetic field as
copper
> >is. But they
> >are subceptable to potential which is repetative. I say electrons are
going
> >nowhere.
>
> Heating is caused by the inherent resistance that atoms offer to electron
flow, not an "out of balance state." In the same way that a lost child has
to go through a crowd of adults to get to the otherside of a room, the
child transfers her kinetic energy to other people. That manifestation of
energy is heat, only the child doesn't feel it.
>
> > Do you want to experience the atoms "defense" system in person? Wear a
> >nylon
> >shirt with a polyester jacket all day. You'll be glad to shuck those
when
> >you get
>
> Now this is a case entirely different from conductors. Electron theory
has laws governing current flow. The above is true for cuurent flow, a
dynamic system. A polyester jacket and nylon shirt, doesn't follow those
same laws, because as far as this part is concerned, this is a static
system, static electricity, stored charge. All insulators have the ability
to be conductors or charge carriers. That can only happen if they were
ionized, or have an excess or absence of electrons. When the nylon
particles rub the polyester particles, you are transferring electrons from
one material to the other, it goes only one way, I don't know which way
that is. When you touch someone a transfer of electrons occur, i.e.
electron flow, i.e. a current flow.
>
> This also explains lightning. The atmosphere rubs (wind, and the like)
against the earth. Eventually, a negative charge is accumulated in the
clouds and a positive in the ground. This potential difference increases
and increases until the air in between gets ionized enough to conduct the
excess electrons from the clouds to the ground. Lightning.
>
> >home. The fact is, they are two different materials of atoms that just
cant
> >tolerate
> >one another. To me.. its just natures way of balance.
> >Dont roll over yet Mike Faraday....these are just thoughts. Any
takers??
>
> I'm not well versed on electron theory even though I'm an electronics
engineer. I major in communications engineering and electronics is a
prerequisite. Which is to say that I'm sure that magnetic fields are
entirely different from electric fields. In fact it is the study of
electric fields and magnetic fields that enable us to use antennas for
radio communications.
>
> Just my answers to your thoughts.
>
> Dino- @}
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