I have quite a lot of information that I KNOW that you would find
useful. I have addressed many questions on this topic in a multitude of
forums over the last 10 years, or so.
Rather than take up bandwidth on this list, with my LONG dissertations
about how the world works; I am trying to find the time to make some web
pages, to cover several topics, with this topic as a high priority. In
the mean time, I wan to address just one aspect of the multitude of
misconceptions, and other 'forces' prevent the average man from seeing
'the BIG picture'; when it comes to taking advantage, of the rights and
privileges afforded, him; but (generally speaking) is too uninformed to
know, or even be concerned about the facts, which govern his existence.
("My people parish, for lack of knowledge" - That statement is as true
today, as when God spoke it to Moses 4000 years ago.)
SO, To be brief, I will only address two points from your last post, and
hope that my treatment of these topics, will entice you to come to me
for the answers to these types of questions -
> I have been thinking it would be wise to burn a cd with all my data on it,
> or rather, several, and send them to myself, certified mail.. the standard
> mini-copyright process right? (as well as a few to selected other people,
> for safe keeping) just to prove a date, etc. I also have plenty of video
> footage from demonstrations including the Chief-Of-Staff of the State Atty.
> Generals office and another gentleman who passed away several years ago,
> done in a building that was leveled quite a while ago as well. This seems a
> fairly solid way to prove these things.
Yes, making a THROUGH backup of all pertinent data, WITH THE DATES, when
individual improvements, and general developments, were accomplished, is
always a good idea. Giving it to ANYBODY other than a Patent Attorney,
or patent Agent, WHO DOES NOT have a signed an notarized Non-disclosure
agreement in place with you is NEVER a good idea !!! Yes those lawyers
are still lawyers, and they are still 'leaches', and 'whores'; but, at
least, they are bound by law to keep your secrets. Just as an aside;
with the exception of a VERY SHORT list of criminal, and civil trial
lawyers, the only attorneys I have met, who are 'worth their salt', as
human beings are Patent Attorneys.
Mailing ANYTHING to yourself accomplishes NOTHING, as far as the Court
is concerned. I don't care what you might have heard, nor from whom you
might have heard it. If you think that it will hold up in court as
'exculpatory evidence'; then you are just plain mistaken. Document,
DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT !!!! And then document, that you documented, all
dates of all developments, in a "mechanically numbered, Book bound
Notebook" and then, if you ever find yourself in an American court, in
a patent infringement suit, you will be able to demonstrate to the
court, that there was a linear, chronological progression in the
development of your product, and that all the dates precede those of
your accuser, or the accused, if you are the one suing.
> Is there some way to make sure the patent office checks a particular
> website for publicly disclosed ideas before granting a patent? That would
> seem to be a solution of sorts.
Well, gee whiz. Think about what you just said there. 'Is there some way
to get a "GOVERNMENT AGENCY" to change the way they have done business
for the last 200 odd years?' Don't bet on it !!! Especially, if it
means, that someone will have to be hired to do something, that their
already overworked, and underpaid, disgruntled government employees are
not currently called upon to do. "Cutbacks" is the current 'buzzword' of
the day in Government circles; yet they clamor for more of my money, to
do even less with it, than they are doing now. And, on top of that; we
are 6 TRILLION in debt, yet they can come up with a 3 TRILLION dollar
"SURPLUS", in a budget, that is only slated to 'NET' about 600 BILLION
(after the 'immdiate' expense of running the government is paid)', in
Taxes this year. The audacity of politicians, is only superseded by the
general public's complete & total INability to comprehend anything,
which involves engaging their cerebral gears, to crank out the simplest
little logic based answer to a math problem.
BUT I digress - 'No, the answer to your question is 'NO'!
HOWEVER, - IN THIS CASE, since the EVIDENCE, that this device was NOT
the invention of the man in question is literally in Jerry's hands! It
is very concievable, that an EXCELLENT case could be put together for
bringing FEDERAL FRUAD charges against this man, for filing fraudulent
government paperwork. He is literally looking at 10 to 20, in a Federal
pen, PLUS fines, and court costs. He should be on a Fast boat to China
TOMORROW, if he has any sense at all.
Any other questions, I will be happy to answer one-on-one; or, whenever
I have a chance to post them to a web page.
Stephen Brummitt
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Adrian Knotts wrote:
>
> Thx Jerry,
>
> I had actually planned on protecting it so no-one else could shelve it, but
> allowing free use with the possiblilty of a voluntary lisence fee, listing
> the "complying entities" on a website so the public is encouraged to buy
> products from them instead of the ones who want to keep it all, including
> that half-percent or so..... or something along those lines. Which is why I
> immediately joined this group when i read your shareware concept.
>
> FAR too often the really good ideas get bought and stuck on a shelf
> somewhere because big business has an interest in the status-quo. THIS is
> the worst kind of inhibition I can think of. Slowing the progress of
> humanity in the interest of commerce? WHY? How many concepts have been
> stuffed because someone would lose money if they were brought to light. A
> hypothetical question, of course, but just the THOUGHT of over-unity must
> bring chills to the oil cartel.
>
> I saw a show on the discovery channel a while back about the X-ray and how
> the inventor had 'given' it to humanity, no patents, no lisence, nothing.
> Then had his family destroy all his notes when he died so science couldnt
> cut his work apart for being "less-than" they expected. I identified with
> him all too well.
>
> I have been thinking it would be wise to burn a cd with all my data on it,
> or rather, several, and send them to myself, certified mail.. the standard
> mini-copyright process right? (as well as a few to selected other people,
> for safe keeping) just to prove a date, etc. I also have plenty of video
> footage from demonstrations including the Chief-Of-Staff of the State Atty.
> Generals office and another gentleman who passed away several years ago,
> done in a building that was leveled quite a while ago as well. This seems a
> fairly solid way to prove these things.
>
> Its the thought that someone ELSE could potentially patent it and lock it
> up before anybody finds out about it that gets my goat. This absolutely
> MUST be able to be avoided. I really dont care if I cant patent it as long
> as nobody else can. Having a valid patent would, of course, prevent anyone
> from doing this but if all they have to do is swear an oath and then nobody
> finds out about it until the patent is granted, we are S.O.L. right? and we
> cant exactly go drop $75 every time we make an advancement in our work,
> that would be DAILY. I was looking forward to posting my progress as it
> happens, on my site, like JLN and many others, and knowing that it would
> all be safe from being stolen.. or.. something like that.
>
> If that is our goal wouldnt it serve to just publish and disclose and then
> what? We cant exactly watch the patents that are filed to see if anybody
> tries to steal it before it is considered public domain? how do we prevent
> it? Is there some way to make sure the patent office checks a particular
> website for publicly disclosed ideas before granting a patent? That would
> seem to be a solution of sorts.
>
> Im sure your ideas and/or solutions will be sufficient but I still dont
> think i am going to sleep very well tonite.
>
> OK enough spam out of me.
>
> Thanks again
> Adrian
>
> At 12:37 AM 3/30/00 -0600, Jerry W. Decker wrote:
> >Hi Adrian et al!
> >
> >Well, we all live and learn...I was simply floored when I
> >found out about this having been done by someone in our
> >group and am now considering steps to make sure it cannot
> >happen again...at the least, MINIMIZE the possibility of it.
> >
> >The question as I see it, is the invention being worked on
> >for the public good and without any REQUIREMENT of financial
> >payback or reward,
> >
> >OR, is it just a 'pure science' experiment to learn and pass
> >on something new that will add to the pool of knowledge and
> >hopefully lead to practical applications, ideally developed
> >and marketed by many worldwide (which will result in more
> >options, more competition, cheaper units, look at the
> >digital watch, used to be $200 for an LED display, now $5
> >for LCD)?
> >
> >I can understand an inventor spending time and money on a
> >project with the expectation of patent protection that will
> >provide future income each time one of the units is sold,
> >thats business.
> >
> >This utopian idea, flawed as it may be, offers the hope that
> >the inventor or more precisely the discoverer would be
> >associated with it and be offered all kinds of opportunities
> >and awards of appreciation, some with monetary awards.
> >
> >On investigation, it turns out most of the highly successful
> >'perpetual' large nonprofits own land and real estate,
> >research and develop inventions and technologies and have
> >all kinds of income producing investments and activities
> >which sustains their growth, their charities, their trusts
> >as well as their overhead and salaries.
> >
> >So WHY NOT setup a nonprofit specifically to investigate
> >alternative science technologies, both as 'pure science'
> >that is freely given AND commercial technologies that allow
> >it to self-sustain without having to rely on contributions.
> >
> >It is because of this that I was and am concerned about the
> >two most important foci of KeelyNet, free energy/overunity
> >and gravity control followed closely by electronic and
> >energetic health methods. It would be totally pathetic and
> >ironic if all this non-paid effort, exclusively given and
> >expected to benefit humanity,
> >led to all kinds of experimentation that was freely
> >released, then patented by some unscrupulous person or
> >company to lock it all up or reap rewards by selling or
> >marketing that which they simply were first to patent.
> >
> >There is no question we will protect our interests through
> >non disclosure for commercial devices, but WHEN we get the
> >basic proof of principle for overunity, no matter which form
> >it takes (and there will be many variations), AND how to
> >alter gravity in a device or local area, we must insure that
> >it cannot be stolen, locked up or otherwise suppressed.
> >
> >Glad someone else out there sees the point of this....I
> >should have checked into it a lot more and have to varying
> >degrees in the past but it was this revelation that one of
> >us had cheated that brought it home.
> >
> >What is interesting is that 'public disclosure' doesn't have
> >to be hundreds or thousands of people....it could just be a
> >pamphlet mailed out or given to a few people....most won't
> >do anything with it anyway but even less risk would be
> >incurred by limiting the release to just a few trusted
> >contacts, even family.
> >
> >In your case, it is purely commercial which is not a
> >problem, so I'd certainly not post any details or even
> >description of operation, that revealed anything
> >significant....a teaser page with an announced approximate
> >date of release might be useful as it could draw in
> >investors who you could have sign a non-disclosure prior to
> >even discussing it with them, let alone demonstrating a
> >working model.
> >
> >CYA and protect your interests and ideals, that's what its
> >about.
> >
> >
> >Adrian Knotts wrote:
> >>
> >> Thank you JERRY!!!
> >>
> >> I find myself reeling in disbelief after reading this and subsequent links.
> >>
> >> Am I the only one who was under the impression that public disclosure
> >> granted a right to file ( or release to public domain ) on the invention
> >> for the following year?
> >>
> >> I am fairly new to this list and though I have not been participating I
> >> have been following closely while finishing up on many years of work. I was
> >> preparing for disclosure and filing and now it appears that I have to
> >> completely change my course of action. I have been converting my notes to
> >> html, making video captures and actually finding myself having to re-do
> >> some experiments because I either cant find the film or forgot to take
> >> pictures. Looks like my website will NOT be going up as planned and once i
> >> get my heart rate back to normal I will just thank God that jerry is
> >> on-the-ball.
> >>
> >> This information comes "not a minute too soon" too.
> >>
> >> There HAS to be a way for people to work together through a medium like
> >> this while not "tipping their hand" to those who would steal their ideas. I
> >> have felt a real tinge of fear about openly telling the whole world about
> >> my work, as I am sure others have felt, but would really like a forum for
> >> discussion. The result has been a passive approach to co-operative research
> >> which, even though I doubt I could have helped many people much I sure
> >> would have liked to bounce ideas off a group such as this.
> >>
> >> You all have my deepest respect for your work and devotion (and I know,
> >> first hand, what its like to spend years working toward one goal)
> >>
> >> I had a finance source who appears to have found other priorities more
> >> spectacular than my simple work and may well not be willing to follow
> >> through the patent process with me. Of course I want to think my work is
> >> suitable for marketing and may make a difference in this world but they
> >> appear to be just dropping the ball even though I have already recieved
> >> some funding from them and I am asking myself another question? maybe you
> >> can help?
> >
> >If you have your website, that would be great to just post a
> >basic description of what your device does, but not how,
> >unless that description might lead people to thinking about
> >how to do the same thing....but it might draw in investors.
> >
> >> Does the contribution of funds towards developing a "next generation"
> >> prototype grant the contributor any special rights? Assuming
> >> proof-of-concept has already been accomplished.
> >
> >You'd have to talk with a lawyer about that. As I
> >understand it, unless there is a specific contract granting
> >a percentage of proceeds from an invention or activity, then
> >you simply would owe the amount of money invested as a
> >'loan', but a lawyer would certainly be able to write up
> >specific contracts that both parties agree to.
> >
> >> And, for general information, what if it hasnt? Does someone who gives you
> >> money to prove a concept own any part of the concept?
> >>
> >> Sorry to add more questions to this maze-of-a-topic but I need to develop
> >> another strategy now and im not quite sure which direction to go.
> >>
> >> Thx
> >> Adrian Knotts
> >
> >--
> > KeelyNet - From an Art to a Science
> > Jerry W. Decker - http://www.keelynet.com/
> >discussion archives http://www.escribe.com/science/keelynet/
> >KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, TX 75187 - 214.324.8741
> >
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