Re: Un-scientific definitions

John Berry ( antigrav@ihug.co.nz )
Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:41:49 +1300

Well I don't quite understand you
I assume the paper clip was bent out straight? If you get a symeterical elongated
object and magnetize it down it's long axis it will align it's self to the magnetic
field lines, it will point to the north and south at the same time with opposite
ends.
Any normal compass indicates (points) the direction of north and south at the same
time.

Russell Garber wrote:

> What is it with science and the un-scientific definitions they use? When we
> think of science, we think of facts, but too often in science the definitions
> used are not based on facts. I realize that a lot of areas in science are
> theoretical, but unfortunately the definitions do not always reflect this. In
> many cases we are given multiple definitions for the same term, that have
> different meanings, and when the definition is the best theory (and therefore
> not a true definition), a definition is often given without the word theory
> being used. I see this as a huge problem. Take the thread on the geomagnetic
> poles for instance. It reminded me of the movie "The Edge". If you saw the
> movie, then you know that the people in the movie where trying to find out
> which way was South. One of the characters in the movie made a compass using a
> paper clip and silk, and determined South was the direction that the clip
> pointed when sitting on a leaf that was floating in a still pool of water.
> When asked how he could be sure, the character remarked that the needle had no
> choice, it had to point South. Again, if you saw the movie, this character
> was supposed to be very intelligent and thus the statement appeared to be made
> as a fact and not a mistake. Now, while watching this, I am thinking, wait a
> minute, a compass points North (again I am speaking of the directions North and
> South), how could Hollywood make such a mistake as this in a movie. Anyway,
> without going into that any further, regardless of which is true, you can see
> where the confusion comes in. People do not want to change definitions that
> people are used to in fear of further confusion, but I personally would rather
> have a little confusion now, in an attempt to get CORRECT definitions, as it
> will make a difference somewhere down the road.

But if you are conscious of it it does not matter.

> Another example is the
> definition of a Photon. I have read four different definitions that had
> completely different meanings thus making all of the definitions useless (I
> would have rather seen "unknown" as the definition, then four different
> definitions). It makes one wonder how they can come up with such complex
> theories, when they cannot even agree on a definition for key players in their
> theories. Not to mention the fact that they often leave out any anomalies they
> come across because they cannot explain them even though they consistently show
> up (Maxwell's equations for example). Such reckless use of definitions
> (including refusal to update them based on new evidence), only further hinders
> our understanding of complex ideas used in such theories and the ideas used by
> inventors. One possible reason why a lot of the inventions cannot be
> duplicated, may be due to problems with vague, mis-understood, or incorrect
> definitions used to describe some process in the invention (even if we
> understand the definition, the inventor may not have). We could probably list
> endless examples, but you get the idea. This problem has bothered me for a
> long time, and recent posts have further brought this problem out into the
> open. I am done complaining about it as there is probably not much we can do.
> The only thing I would suggest is that any inventors or theorists out there,
> please explain exactly what you mean (using clear and easily understood
> examples if possible) , even if you think that it is already clear what you
> mean, in an attempt to avoid such confusion. If there is any confusion, then
> please state what definition you are using for the unclear term.
>
> -Russ
> "If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch"
>
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