I for one did not join this list to "preach", or to evangelize, and I have
tried my best to keep my personal views in general out of my posts, (except
where the 'government' is concerned, I have to rag on the government,
whenever possible!) However, since the topic has strayed into this
territory, I would like to 'weigh-in' on this discussion.
First, I think I need to explain a little, about the many reasons why I am
here on this list to begin with; in spite of the fact, that I would
probably be considered by some like Gerald, to be one of those who believe
"superstitious dogma propounded by certain ignorant misguided religions of
the dark ages."
One of the events, which got me looking closer at the possiblity, that
conventional science has some pretty big blinders on, when it comes to
acknowledging the existance of Overunity, and 'natural forces' that here to
fore, have not yet been fully explained, was a mear party trick!
Has any one else out there, ever experienced 'near weightlessness', by
sitting in a chair, and having 5 people hold their hands over you? In my
case, there were four small women, and one man. First the women tried to
lift me out of the chair, by clasping their hands together, and extending
their index fingers, and putting their extended fingers one under each
knee, and one onder each arm pit, tried to lift my 240 lb. frame. They
could not! Then they stood around me, alternated their hands above me, (one
on top of the other, about one inch apart not touching), and just stood
there for about five minutes until I started to feel a "liquid warmth" on
the top of my head. then they broke formation, and quickly the women did
the exact same manuver to lift me, which had failed 5 minutes before. They
did not even have to exert themselves to lift me good four feet in the air!
No one was chanting, or calling on 'dark forces', or even burning incense!
Just standing there!
Now! As a medical person, I am well aware that people can perform
extraordinary feats of adrenalin induced strength; but in this case, I find
it highly unlikely, that they had even been 'psyched' into a mental state,
where adrenalin was a factor; because none of the women had ever done this
before, and were mearly following my cousins instructions! So! I must ask
you: What was the force that 'disrupted gravity', enough for me to be
lifted in this manner?
Another, event which helped convince me of Overunity, is my own
experimentation with the Hammel Spinning disk. I built my own version of
this device, and demonstrated it to my friends at the Tennessee Inventor's
Association; and had a nuclear physicist tell me, "That's the damnest thing
I've ever seen!"
So! What does any of this have to do with our debate about the "religious"
aspects of our forum? Well, several things! But, I must back track a moment
to bring all this into focus for you.
[But first, I am going to state here and now that I am not "putting down"
anyone's religion, but yes, Gerald, the Catholic church has historicaly
been very antagonistic, to progess in general of the human race. And, the
Omish eschew technology altogether, (as best they can in a world, in which
technology is simply inescapable!) But, I for one am very tolerent of both
those groups; because, my life is complicated enough without antagonizing
people, whom I ultimately consider (if they are true believers), brothers
of my faith, regardless of our many doctrinal differences! ]
I believe that it was Jerry himself, in a post not too long ago, who
mentioned that he had some very religious Christian relatives, and was very
surprised to find that they kept a pyramid in their backyard, as a root
cellar of sorts. If I remember correctly, he then concluded, "so much for
this stuff, as being new age".
Another post, from someone recently who from his own experimentation
actually decided that the term "evil" best described pyramid power, because
in their view, it was " a life draining force". There is a prime example of
someone, who probably dosen't hold my religious views, assigning the same
"value judgement", that I would, but for totally differenton reasons, on a
topic, which is generally 'fair game' on this list. So, I have no remorse,
or any reason to NOT share my value judgements, in the same vein, just
because I happen to be a Christian!
Well, my view of this, is that deception comes in many shapes and colors,
and I for one know that I have been taken in, many times in the past, by
things which I should have left alone, and would have, if I had only been
listening to God! And, I am trying my best to keep my ears open to hear God
tell me if I am going in a direction, that I should not go, for whatever
reason He deems, because, He is after all GOD! And, He WILL speak, if you
will only listen, "He who has ears to hear.... "
When I participated in that party trick, was I unknowingly 'dabbling' in
the "Occult"? If so, then I repent, and ask God's forgiveness; but, if I
don't examine this more closely, how am I ever going to know, if it does
fall into the catagory of "Witchcraft"? At this point, I am not certain of
the "physics", which may or may not, be behind this phenomenon. AND,
nowhere in 'my' Christian religion, has it been outlined for me, (unlike
Gallileo), that I do not have a right to explore the world of "science",
which may behind this phenomenon!
Brother Don came very close to making one point, that I thought very
pertinent, that Jesus pretty much came to throw-out virtually everything,
that most people hold as being 'religious'. When Jesus declared Himself to
be 'THE' only way to the Father, the "RELIGIOUS" folks of the day had a
cow! So much so, that they had Him put to death! And, we as individuals
must come to a conclusion one way or another on this point, because:
1) There was an historical figure that we call Jesus, to whom all the
miracals of the Bible are ascribed.
2) He, for one, believed the things that he said, and he was either
"right", or he was a mad man!
I said that; because, I only believe in Him now, because I was searching,
for something, and all I had to do was open my heart to the possability,
that Jesus was who He said He was, and God showed me in an incontrovertible
manner, that Jesus was THE bridge between God and man. If you don't believe
that, then call me a lier; but from where I stand. I am not about to
contridict God!
Stephen Brummitt
dev@icx.net
___________________________________________________________________
At 11:26 PM 9/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Gerald thanks for writing,
>
>>
>> Hi Don.
>> Energy, matter, AND spirit, are all part of GOD's one great creation.
>
>yes thats true.
>
>> Your FEAR of investigating things that have been named "spiritualism" by
>> others in the past strikes me as irrational. It sounds more like the
>> superstitious dogma propounded by certain ignorant misguided religions
>> of the dark ages.
>
>only if we clearly state that any belief at all in texts such as the Koran,
>Bible, Talmud etc... have absolutely no validity or bearing in todays world.
>I havent found that to be the case myself. In fact I've found that the
pervasive
>and staunchly defended religion of academics, politicians and most
religous leaders
>which is 'humanism' is rarely correct or accurate about anything. I have yet
>to see one essential spiritual 'truth' from a book like the Bible ever fail.
>I am NOT a religous person. I have little time for orthodox religion at all.
>I find it quite stale, meaningless and without life. But then when Christ
walked
>the earth he also didnt get along with most religous leaders for much the
same reason.
>It is one thing to be closed minded and shut oneself off from scientific
discovery
>new perceptions on ourselves, the universe, each other, the fabric of reality
>and quite another to simply recognize something that is clearly in violation
>of what one believes to be true. If I say I don't subscribe to the practice
>of witchcraft and am labeled a superstitious, dogmatic, ignorant, and
misguided
>religionist, then by your definition I simply havent the opportunity to
discern
>what I feel is right or wrong irrespective of social influnce. I find that
>proposal quite frightening and in actuality that seems very much like the
sort
>of thing that a violent, intolerable and fascist regime would dictate.
>'Thought crimes' - aka Orwells 1984. I know it is quite fashionable and
trendy
>to be 'pagan' in the 90's but I've never been big into fashion myself nor
>have I been big into organized religions of any kind, be they Catholic,
>Humanism or Cyber-Shamanism. I just believe what I believe and try my best
>to do my best.
>
>>Believe what you want to, but your superstitious fears
>> serve only to enslave your own mind.
>
>I fail to see how exactly you have determined that my fears are those
>of an enslaved and superstitious mind. I did not simply wake up one
>day and blindly let some old and out of touch priest ram regurtitated
>orthodoxy down my throat and then say to him, 'thank you suh, may I have
another?'
>My fears are based, at least to me, on what I feel is quite rational.
>I'm certain, since you have seemed to indicate that your beliefs are opposite
>of mine, that you have a rational basis to your beliefs. So you are rational
>while I am not. I see. What rational process did you use to arrive at this
>conclusion? Was it simply the fact that I believe something differnt than
you do,
>that your belief is superior to mine and that I should be quashed? That
>doesnt sound very rational to me. Or is it that because humanism is so
very much
>more popular than what you cleary suspect me of being, an out of date
orthodox
>religionist freak akin to the typical hollywood media rendition?
>
>>This forum is about science not religion.
>
>yes, that is what I had thought initially, which is why I was surprised to
see
>what seemed to be to be religious ideas of wicca or witchcraft being
>talked about as 'science'. Gerald Berry, how many actual 'scientitsts'
>would see the pyramid device as scientific? How many wiccans would see this
>description as being one to which they would gleefully and intimately relate?
>This is then certainly a 'religous' theme in the forum to some degree and
one to which you
>do not seem to object. Or do you actually mean that there is room for
some religions and not
>others? Are you saying we may discuss topics of 'appropriate' religous
topics
>but not others. If witchcraft doesnt disturb you but Christianity does,
then you
>shall banish any concern that smacks of a 'Christian' type tone with a quick
>draw of the pen, while on the other hand securing the place of other
'religions'
>within the forum by simply stating directly that its ok to do so or by
simply
>attempting to disguise it adequately enough to junior members who don't
know any better.
>And then should someone make a stink about it, such as myself... you can
summarily
>squelch them by crying indignantly, 'Hark, what foul religionist
besmirches these hallowed
>halls?" "Out with you religionist!" So if your right to expression stands
>and mine is not allowed, where is the freedom? It sounds to me like
intolerance
>and clever manipulation of ideologies to meet the agenda of those who wish
to propogate
>same and not an open forum of simply 'science and discovery' at all.
>
>>I suggest that if you object to the study of certain things
>> based on your religious beliefs, that you keep it to yourself and simply
>> stay away from it rather than trying to rationalize your personal
>> 'moral' objections to everyone else. I for one do not subscribe to this
>> mail list to be preached to.
>
>Yes I know, you've stated we may only discuss appropriate religious views,
>yours. Anything else just won't do.
>
>Interesting, and yet here you are preaching to me. You say I should not
object
>to the study of certain things, I should shut up and go away. And yet you
are
>'morally' objecting and rationalizing your right to tell me publicly that
you
>have a right to which I am not priviledged. Isn't this tyranny? Your
perception
>and opinion is superior to mine in your eyes and in fact as far as you are
>concerned I not only should not express what I think (however you are
allowed to)
>but I should be removed entirely. Perhaps if we lived in Rome you could
avoid
>annoyances such as me by simply tossing me to the lions, that would be so
>much more convenient for you I imagine. And for the record, I NEVER said
I was
>'religous'. You never gave me the courtesy or made the effort to find out
exactly
>where I was coming from. I simply said that witchcraft was against my
spiritual beliefs
>and you decided to 'champion' what ever your cause happens to be since in
your eyes
>I had committed a grievance or sent up the warning flag of not agreeing to
what
>I was reading and indicating such.
>
>Not that any one is likely to care, but the Bible states quite clearly
that 'divining'
>and spiritualism is wrong, case closed for me. I do not have a closed
mind I simply
>refuse to do something which I think is horrifically wrong.. I have built
orgone accumulators,
>rife generator type devices, cloudbusters, geode transmutation devices,
worked with
>l-fields and have spent likely hundreds of hours reading all sorts of
different topics
>related to alternative technology. I am but a simple layman with an
inquisitive mind,
>perhaps Gerald you know better and can tell me what to believe and how to
act, as in your
>infinite wisdom and like the Priests of the inquisition you seem to know
best and I
>shouldn't be allowed to think or decide for myself... because I am an
ignorant, superstitious,
>dogmatic religionist.
>
>Regards,
>
>Don J. S. Adams
>
>P.S. In case you happened to miss it, I 'm assuming you must have and just
didnt perform a
>kneejerk reaction to my statements. I very clearly stated that I was OPEN
to hearing how
>the pyramid device or radionics ACTUALLY were scientific and NOT based on
any religious
>ideologoy such as witch craft. No adequate follow up has to date been
provided on this.
>All that seemed to occur was for Jerry to confirm that sure it could be
construed as witch craft,
>but thats ok because labels don't mean anything. Gerald, do you think
labels mean anything?
>Such as "superstitious dogma propounded by certain ignorant misguided
religions of the dark ages."
>
>Respectfully yours,
>
>Don
>
>
>
>>
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