Subject: Re: Straight Dope. Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 06:04:13 -0400 From: Byron Wine To: eric@voicenet.com Eric Krieg wrote: > Byron, > > I've heard tons of rumors about this kind of stuff too. I would ------------------------ Eric, Thanks for your response. I have a book written by folks at Shell Oil Co., a few pages from this book are attached. I don't consider this book to be "rumors", a professor, at West Virginia University, informed me, about 1980, that this book was used as an engineering text during the 70's. Also attached is an article about Tom Ogle and his more than 100 mpg "Oglemobile". The El Paso Public Library has a considerable newspaper-clipping file about Ogle. A letter. sent by certified mail, responding to two letters in the Washington Post is also attached. The Post did not contact me or publish this letter. You probably don't believe there is a cover up concerning energy devises. The following, unanswered e-mail to the Department of Energy is an example of why I know there is a cover up. The DoE response to my previous E-mail is in Bold, my response is in italic. [Edit 4/15/98. Format did not transfer.] Start of E-mail to DoE. Subject: Re: Message to Secretary Pen~a Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 07:58:20 -0500 From: byronw To: Patrick.Davis@ee.doe.gov References: 1 Mr. Davis, Thank you for your response. Snip --------------- Patrick.Davis@ee.doe.gov wrote: Mr. Wine, Thank you for your message to Secretary Pen~a on 10/22/97. Your message was forwarded to my office for reply. The Department of Energy has for many years worked at increasing the efficiency of automobiles to maximize vehicle mileage. We have confirmed through our own work on actual vehicles and through computer modeling that 80 mpg is indeed an aggressive goal for today's mid-size sedans. Snip ------------------------- During the past 20 or so years, I've read various reports concerning automobile fuel efficiency. A March 1979 Virginia Polytechnic Institute (VPI) Mechanical Engineering Notebook ( Volume 1, No. 2) report "Maximum and probable fuel economy of automobiles." is one. This report, among other things, defines mpg as limited by the first and second laws of thermodynamics. I called the author to bring to his attention several documented cases of automobile mpg that exceeded the "Operation Impossible" defined limits in his report. One case exceeded the limit by approximately 250%. The author said "I'll get back to you.". It's been almost 18 years, I'm still waiting for the "I'll get back to you". The VPI report shows that an, as defined 3,500 Lb. mid-size car, could not exceed approximately 65 mpg at 55 mph because of thermodynamic impossibility. A government funded National Research Council report "Automobile Fuel Economy- How far should we go" (ISBN 0-309-04530-4), on page 40, concludes that a mid-size car might achieve 32 to 35 mpg by model year 2006. In the Summery of an Office of Technology report "Saving Energy in U.S. Transportation (I believe dated August 17, 1994) is "OTA concluded in 1991 that U.S. new car fleet fuel economy levels of about 33 mpg could likely be achieved soon after the turn of the century,…". DoE now predicts 80 mpg. Either the data used to predict the mpg in these reports and predictions is wrong or the predicted mpg is a figure dictated by political considerations. Since the predicted mpg is less than half the 1936 achievement, with the Pogue Carburetor, of 171 mpg by Ford Motor Co., I'm left with the political consideration answer. Years ago, a retired Air Force Colonel showed me a photograph of a Pogue Carburetor installed on a WW2 tank. The Colonel stated that the tank got better than 35 mpg. I suggest that you do an Internet search for "Charles Pogue". You might also read the book "Secrets of the 200-mpg Carburetor". This book is available at http://idt.net/~cnfrmtn9/outlet.html. You may not have seen the August 1977 Argosy article about Tom Ogle and his more than 100 mpg 4,600 Lb. "Oglemobile". An OCR of that article is attached. Additional information about Ogle may be found in the newspaper clipping file of the El Paso Texas Public Library. A reporter, about 1980, then with the El Paso Times, informed me that he was in the Oglemobile and in later test, the Oglemobile exceeded 200 mpg. snip --------------------- I appreciate you alerting us to your web site: I did "visit" the site today and found it to be very interesting, with several technologies cited that I will personally investigate further. However, I must inform you that in general when investigating such claims in the past, the vast majority cannot be directly compared to conventional vehicle mileage measurements. When DOE or automobile manufacturers cite mileage figures, in almost all cases we are referring to the mileage obtained with a vehicle meeting the following restrictions: Mileage measured on a drive cycle (includes stops, acceleration, idle, etc.) Vehicle is fully crashworthy Vehicle meets all other regulatory requirements (emissions, safety, etc.) Data is not biased by unusual driving conditions (wind, terrain) I would also like to assure you that it has been my experience that vehicle manufacturers (both domestic and foreign) desparately pursue high mileage technologies. Since they are not in the business of selling fuel, they search for every advantage possible in the market place. However, it must be noted that with the current low cost of gasoline, the buying public is willing to pay only marginal amounts for increased mileage vehicles. snip --------------------- I don't have the resources of General Motors, however I modified two automobiles to improve mpg. The first modification doubled the mpg the second tripled mpg. These cars were driven to work, 80 mile round trip, and other than initial carburetor icing in the second modification, had no problems. The modification material cost did not exceed $50. A new product was not my goal, I just wanted to verify that more complete vaporizing of gasoline would improve mpg. It did. snip ------------------ Again, thank you for your interest in our announcement. I have included a copy of the original press release and Secretary Pen~a's press conference remarks as attachments. snip--------------- A few years ago, the Washington Times or Washington Post, had a photograph of a fuel cell powered car developed by Dr. Billings. As I recall the caption, the $60,000 car was developed for the state of Pennsylvania. Mr. Davis, many devices exist that could, if implemented, greatly reduce our dependence on fossil fuel. New Energy News (NEW) June 1995, November 1995 and December 1996 has information about a U.K. Patent for a 317% efficient electric motor. If a 317% efficient motor sounds unbelievable, you might wonder why another experiment of Michael Faraday is not taught in school. In this experiment, a disk and attached magnet were spun and produced the same voltage as when the disk was spun over the same stationary magnet. NEW, February 1995, pages 8 to 11, has documentation for this experiment. The NEW web site, www.padrak.com/ine, might have additional information. If you need documentation, in MS-Word 6 format, for anything on my web page, I can furnish it. Byron Wine End of E-mail to DoE. I had a 35 meg Netscape e-mail file with mail of this type, lost it when a software program attempted to install the unwanted MS browser. I do have copies of some e-mail in my Word 97 files. I saw, many years ago, a local Washington, D. C. television station broadcast about a Lincoln that got better than 70 mpg. I can’t furnish a name for someone getting better than 40 mpg. I can furnish a name, Joe Bollent ( ) who is with a group making a fuel (gaseous) from water and carbon rods (If you contact Joe, mention my name.). Joe sent me several videotapes with demonstrations of various engines, automobile included, running on this fuel. I found it interesting that the University of Miami refused to let a car running on this fuel be entered in a solar energy race. The group had planned to demonstrate this patented process in Tampa Bay, by making the fuel on a boat then running the boat on the fuel. I don’t know how the demonstration turned out. This site http://members.aol.com/AquaFuel/index.html may have additional information. I don’t know what’s on this site, my ISP server can’t access it. It would be a big help if you would mention the Shell Oil achievements in a future column. Byron --------------------------------------------------------------------- -=------ this page sited from http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic ----------