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Billy Goodman Happening, Nov. 21, 1989

Guest: Bob Lazar

Transcript (Partial) for Radio Call-In Talk Show

The following is a verbatim transcript of a radio call-in talk show on KVEG-AM, Las Vegas, which aired Nov. 21, 1989 from 10pm to 1am. The featured guest is Robert Lazar, a physicist who claims to have worked at a "secret flying saucer base" in Nevada. About a week before this radio interview, Lazar was featured on a series of local television reports about UFOs on Las Vegas television station KLAS-TV.

The Players

• Lazar: Bob Lazar.
• Goodman: Billy Goodman. Talk show host.
• Huff: Gene Huff. Friend of Bob Lazar.
• Cast of callers.

[Theme Song: "It's a Happening."]

Goodman: I see the light, too. That's the happening. Welcome in to your Billy Goodman Happening as we broadcast live from Las Vegas, Nevada. For the next three hours, ladies and gentlemen, we will be taking your telephone calls. Jot down these phone numbers so you can get in there. At 451-5834. That's the local number--anyone in Las Vegas, North Las Vegas, Henderson and Boulder City. From out of state, area code 702-451-5834. And if you have never called the Happening before, we have that new member line, and everybody out there, all the regulars wait for the new people to call in, at 702-451-5655. And a little later on, we'll be talking with our guest Bob Lazar, and Gene Huff. Now, Bob Lazar is a scientist that was on Channel Eight out here and caused a lot, I mean an awful lot of controversy. He came out and told things that we had been... that we've known for a long time. And we are going to go into that. He's going to take your telephone calls, so if you have any questions for Bob Lazar get ready now, call in and we'll set you up on the telephone lines and we'll go from there.

We want to remind you about Joseph Jacob, Psychic. Joseph Jacob's down in Los Angeles, at 1-800-733-7353, is the man that when the psychics and astrologers don't know what's going on in their lives, and they want to know where to turn to next, they call Joseph Jacob, Psychic, at 1-800-733-7353. It's actually 1-800-SEE-SELF. And when you call Joseph Jacob's number, 1-800-733-7353, you either get Joseph right then and there or his non-psychic tape machine, and he says right on the machine, leave your name and number, he'll call you back at his expense. It won't cost you a dime. All of his readings, of course, are confidential and very reasonable. So, if you're looking for a psychic extraordinaire, you give Joseph Jacob, Psychic, a call, at 1-800-733-7353.

All right, 451-5834 is our local number from Las Vegas, North Las Vegas, Henderson, Boulder City. From out of state, 702-451-5834. And, of course, that new member line, 702-451-5655. We'll get back and we'll starting talking with our guest Bob Lazar after this message.

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Goodman: And now is the time for Bob Lazar, our guest tonight in the studio. Bob are you there?

Lazar: Sure am.

Goodman: All right, Bob. Bob, I guess you know by now, you came on Channel 8, the CBS affiliate here in Las Vegas and came out with some startling information, mainly that there are flying saucers not too far from here, and I don't want to say Area 51, anymore, right?

Lazar: Right.

Goodman: Tell us why. It's not Area 51 where they are.

Lazar: No, it's Area S-4. A lot of people get that confused. It's about ten miles south of Area 51, of Groom Lake, which is Area 51.

Goodman: But, when people try to get down the dirt road, man, they get stopped by guards. What are they protecting there?

Lazar: Oh, Groom Lake. That's Area 51.

Goodman: Okay, what's going on up at Groom Lake? Can you tell us that?

BL There are actually a lot of projects are going on at Groom Lake, Area 51. One of them is Aurora, a high altitude reconnaissance aircraft designed to replace the SR-71. There are just a lot of other things going on. Some Star Wars research, but there aren't and never have been any flying saucers at Area 51, at Groom Lake.

Goodman: You have been at Area 51 so you can say that unequivocally, right?

Lazar: Oh, yeah.

Goodman: You've been there. Have you spent most of your time over at S-4, is that the case?

Lazar: Yeah, as it turns out, Groom Lake, Area 51, has a runway there, so if you want to go out to that part of the Test Site, you fly in and land at Groom Lake, and then you take a bus south to Area S-4.

Goodman: Bob, have you actually landed on that airstrip at Groom Lake?

Lazar: Yeah, every time I went out there I had to land there.

Goodman: Every time. And how often did you go out there?

Lazar: It wasn't on a regular basis. They essentially called me up and said, well, Thursday by 4:45 be at such-and-such a place and, you know, get on this plane and, you know, you'll be out there. I hadn't worked into a regular schedule, yet.

Goodman: I see. Now, how does something like this go about? You're sitting at home, and they say, now, you will be at a certain place at a certain time, or you will arrive there? How do you be sure that you can make connections to get there at 4:45? Do they take care of all of that for you, too?

Lazar: No, I just have to show up there. I mean, if I can't make it, I just have to tell them or call them with sufficient notice.

Goodman: But they want you there for a specific reason, because they want...

Lazar: Well, to get on a specific flight.

Goodman: Right. And they want you there at Groom Lake so you can get to S-4?

Lazar: Right.

Goodman: And then when you get there, what are they looking for you to do?

Lazar: [Pause] Ah... [Laughs] That varied. It could be... mainly educating me, catching me up to where everyone else was.

Goodman: Oh, grooming you.

Lazar: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Goodman: Oh, I see. And what were they grooming you for, Bob?

Lazar: Well, I dealt mainly with the propulsion of the extraterrestrial craft. And there was a lot of material to read, a lot briefings, a lot of research that had been done for quite some time that I had to catch up on before I could really get into it myself, so most of the time I spent reading and going over some things. There was some hands-on experience with some of the equipment from the disks and things of that sort.

Goodman: Lets bring you back, now, to the beginning. You're a young man, let's face it. You're a young man. What was your first reaction the first time you knew for a fact that we had flying saucers in our possession, you saw them with your own eyes. What was your first reaction to this?

Lazar: Oh, it was exciting. What else can you say? It was really neat.

Goodman: [Laughs] That's a good word, really neat.

Lazar: Well, really, I guess it's the only thing you can say. But the first time I saw it and I walked in and actually saw the disk, of course I couldn't say whether or not it was an alien device or just an interesting craft that we've been developing. So it was a little while before I had ascertained that it was an extraterrestrial craft.

Goodman: And did they every explain to you how it got there?

Lazar: No, that I was never told. But they just took things very slowly. First I was exposed to the craft and then I began to read the briefings, and they were monitoring me through the whole time, so they didn't, you know... They let me take things one step at a time, as they do for everyone that works there.

Goodman: Now, you got to be honest with me. Here you are a young man, you left there, you went home to the wife, to your neighborhood, whatever, and you're sitting around having a cup of coffee, did you ever say, Hey, Man, you won't believe this, there are flying saucers.

Lazar: I stuck with the program for a little while.

Goodman: [Laughs.] What was the program? Don't tell anybody?

Lazar: Oh, most certainly.

Goodman: Oooo, there's the word, folks. In other words, you were told, don't tell anybody. In other words, keep this secret, don't let anybody know. Did they every tell you... Did you, like, being inquisitive, I'm sure, as a young man, did you ever say, Why is it that we can't tell anybody? Did you ever ask them that question?

Lazar: No, because being involved with many other classified projects, at the other labs that I worked with, you don't ask that. You just assume that they know what they are doing, and you are privileged to be in that project, so, you know...

Goodman: I can understand that. So you just felt honored being there, like you say.

Lazar: Exactly.

Goodman: Wow. And you get home and sit there with the wife at the dinner table and not even talk about it.

Lazar: Well, that didn't last for too long.

Goodman: [Laughs.] I can imagine, I mean, How was you day today, dear, Anything exciting happen? What would you say?

Lazar: Ah... Not a whole lot... It caused a lot of friction.

Goodman: Sure. It did?

Lazar: Oh, yeah. A tremendous amount.

Goodman: Is that right. Because you couldn't speak up, you couldn't all about what was going on.

Lazar: Right.

Goodman: Okay, we're talking with Bob Lazar, and Bob Lazar is a scientist. That's you're title, right, scientist?

Lazar: Physicist, but scientist is a good, all-round...

Goodman: Okay, right, okay, physicist is even better. And the reason I bring that up, Bob, is because many, any times on the Happening, people have said, oh, they've called in and, you know, and they've talked about it, but we've never had a scientist. Well, tonight, we have a scientist. This is your opportunity of a lifetime to get into a scientist's head. A young man, too. A man that people in the Las Vegas area have seen on television. Of course, the rest of you all the way down to Mexico and up into Canada haven't had that privilege, but you're hearing him tonight. Now, you're with Gene Huff, and Gene Huff is a good friend of yours. Is he a neighbor, is that it?

Lazar: No, just a friend.

Goodman: Just a friend.

Lazar: I guess he was the first person that I began to let the information out to, and, you know, he's really just followed through the whole thing from the day that I was hired there up to... I just kept him briefed on it.

Goodman: That must have been quite a position to be in, Gene?

Huff: Oh, right. I had been monitoring the general UFO researcher material, and when Bob got in the program I just used what he told me to try to ascertain what was the truth and try to sort out what was fact and what was fiction. It was actually a blessing, just a coincidence that we were friends and he got into the most secret program in the world.

Goodman: Were you into this UFO phenomenon as a person, as an individual?

Huff: I have been my whole life, I mean just things, Chariots of the Gods, Omni Magazine, any books that you could get your hands on. But it was really, tough, I mean, people like John Lear, Bill Cooper have all done a good job in at least getting people thinking, and then people can proceed and find out what they can.

Goodman: Well, I think that's where we're headed tonight, don't you agree? I mean, with Bob now telling us... And we're down to, we can now scratch out, I guess, as far as you're concerned, nothing as far as extraterrestrial activity is up at Area 51 or Groom Lake. Has that always been the case, because I heard, and I've also read, as I say, government papers, maybe they lie, but they said that Area 51 was the area where U-2 came out of.

Lazar: Oh, yeah. That's where the U-2 came out of, where the SR-71 came out of.

Goodman: I see.

Lazar: Lots of things came out of there. Maybe a disk went through there. They're just not stored and developed, worked on there. Sure, one may have rolled by there and someone may have... There have been lots of reports of people at Area 51 said, well, at one time I saw a disk in a hanger. That may have happened, but it wasn't there permanently.

Goodman: Bob, I have to tell you this, I guess you know by now, we took a group of people up there, about 200-some-odd people, and I was up there with them. I sat in the desert, and I watched, and here's how I could describe it. Now, picture the twenty-nine and a half mile marker, and we're looking out at these peaks, and there's nothing going all. All of a sudden, you look over the peak, and something comes up, and sort of almost appears over the peak. It's just a light, and you watch this light and you see it doing zigzags. Literally moving down and then coming about. Something had to... Now, are there planes that we have that do those kind of maneuvers?

Lazar: Well, without seeing it, I can't say, but... I mean, I know when the tests are. That's when I invited a few friends out to show them, John Lear and Gene Huff and someone else. The tests are only, have only been done on Wednesday nights. That's just the night, because statistically it's the night of least traffic in that area. They've never been done on the weekend. In fact, on Friday nights, everyone leaves there. It's just a minimal crew there. There's never been... in fact, one of the times when I brought people up there--I believe that was on a Wednesday night--and they just caught the four of us out there, and they canceled the whole test. A busload of people I don't think would ever get by security and they'd ever let a test go on. What you might have seen, I really can't say. Maybe something was in the air at the time, but the chances of it being on a weekend and something actually going on with that amount of people there is almost zero.

Goodman: Okay, so, if people do go to the 29-1/2 mile marker, now, they shouldn't look toward the peak straight ahead, they should look more to their left.

Lazar: Right, definitely to their left.

Goodman: Down range.

Lazar: Yeah.

Goodman: Okay, in other words from the dirt road down to the left. So is that Hancock Summit or something like that?

Lazar: I don't know what the range is called there.

Goodman: Okay. We're talking with Bob Lazar. Let's take some telephone calls and find out where they're coming from. Would you like to do that?

Lazar: Sure.

Goodman: Okay, let's go. And who's up first? Zellie. Let's talk to Zellie. Hello, Zellie.

"Zellie": Hello, Billy. Hello, Bob. I watched you, Bob, on the Channel 8 program and, you know, my dog was barking when you were explaining the gravity theory. These craft don't use any type of gasolice, is that right?

Lazar: Any type of gasoline?

"Zellie": Yes.

Lazar: No, they don't.

"Zellie": Okay, how do they get from "A" to "B"?

Lazar: They bend space and time using gravity.

"Zellie": Can you explain that to a layman like me in as simple terms as possible?

Goodman: And me.

Lazar: Okay, I can give a fairly accurate description. Ihaven't given this before, but I think this is the best one. The craft have three gravity amplifiers on the bottom of 'em. What they do is, assuming that they're in space--it's just easier to get this across that way--they will focus the three gravity amplifiers on the point that they want to go to. Now, to give you an analogy, if you take a thin rubber sheet, say, lay it on a table and put thumbs tacks in each corner. You take a big stone and set it on one end of the rubber sheet and say that that's your UFO or that's your spacecraft. You pick out a point that you want to go to, which could be anywhere on the rubber sheet, pinch that point with your fingers and pull that all the way up to the craft. That's how it focusses and pulls that point actually to it. When you then shut off the gravity generators, the stone or your spacecraft follows that stretched rubber back to its point. There's no linear travel through space. It actually bends space and time, and follows space as it retracts.

"Zellie": Is this kind of like a box that they have on the craft that does this gravity focussing?

Lazar: Well, it's a complete system, not a single little box.

"Zellie": Yeah, that is so hard to understand. Did you come across this easier to understand it, or did you just comprehend this over months or years or...

Lazar: No, it didn't really take very long. The concept is difficult to grasp but...

"Zellie": Oh, I'll say.

Goodman: Well, being a physicist, though, I guess you could handle that kind of a thing. You have to understand that, Zellie. This man, this young man is a physicist, scientist, so I guess this is what they've been taught over the years. Okay?

"Zellie": Okay. Thanks for that black sheet analogy. Appreciate it.

Goodman: Thanks for calling, Zellie.

"Zellie": Bye.

Goodman: Bye- bye. Okay, that's Zellie. My guest is Bob Lazar. He's in studio tonight. Let's go down to Canyon Lake. That sounds like a beautiful place. Canyon Lake in California, and we find Jeff. Hi, Jeff.

"Jeff": How ya doin'?

Goodman: Terrific. How 'bout yourself?

"Jeff": Oh, I'm doing just fine. You know, last Saturday night, my cousin and I were out at Groom Lake, and we saw from the peaks that I think you were describing, Billy, a very similar experience. We saw the light originate over the top of the mountains then streak out to what it looked like, it looked like about a half a mile away from us, and then it just vanished. It lasted for about seven to ten seconds. And then my cousin saw another sighting that was off to the south where your guest described the site.

Goodman: Oh, really?

"Jeff": Yeah, and what was weird about it is that I got out the camera and I was just about ready to take a picture of this thing and it vanished. It, like, it vanished from the center out. It became transparent, and then all of a sudden it was gone. It was like nothing I have ever seen before, and it was very interesting to see. I'm wondering what that could have been. Does you guest know anything about that particular type of manifestation?

Goodman: Okay, we'll let them answer the phone, and thanks for the call, Jeff.

"Jeff": Okay.

Goodman: Take care, buddy.

"Jeff": All right.

Goodman: What do you think about that, Bob?

Lazar: You know, of course, without seeing it, I really can't say, but... that's about all I can say, I guess. I really don't...

Goodman: There has been a theory, and it's come up more than once, that they can dematerialize or all of a sudden be so quick to get away from you that you lose sight of it, instantly, they say. Is that true?

Lazar: Well, you can lose sight of it without it even moving, because just in view of the way things work when they warp time and space around the craft they can actually... This is the exact reason why you can see stars behind the sun, because the sun has an intense gravitational field and it pulls space around where you can begin to see the star behind it. It's just like in a disk: You can be looking straight up at it, and if the gravity generators are in the proper configuration you just see the sky above it; you won't see the craft there. That's how there can be a group of people and only... some people can be right under it and see it and there can be people 100 feet off to the left and not see it. It just depends how the field is bent. It's also the reason why the craft appear as if they're making ninty degree turns at soe incredible speed. It's just the time and space distortion is what you're seeing. You're not seeing the actual event happening.

Goodman: Okay. Bob Lazar is my guest, and let's go to Roger #2. Roger #2. Hello, Roger.

"Roger #2": Yeah. Hi, there.

Goodman: How are you doing tonight?

"Roger #2": Good, fine. How are you all? I've been watching your show there, Bob, and it was terrific. I really enjoyed it, and I got a couple of questions for you. Have you seen any aliens, there, at the base?

Lazar: You know, I really don't want to talk about aliens at S-4. It's just a weird topic and...

"Roger #2": Well, then, you know three days ago, there was this fellow that came on the Billy Goodman Happening, and he's a worker at Mercury. Did you happen to hear that show, Bob?

Lazar: No, I didn't.

"Roger #2": Well, he's a worker, and he told the story about how he went 3000 feet down into the ground, underground in other words, and when the elevator opened up, it was a stainless steel atmosphere, and he's a worker laying electrical wiring and lighting for this vast complex that is at Mercury. And he's been working there quite a while, but he told of the Marines down there wear six bayonets [?] that herded them into certain areas, kept them out of other areas. And one day he saw some doctors there with white coats on, smocks you know, and they were wheeling along on gurnies some aliens with big heads and small bodies and arms and so forth. And I just wondered if you had heard anything about that?

Lazar: This is at Mercury?

"Roger #2": At Mercury, yes.

Lazar: That's a strange place for that to occur, though I have heard, but do not have first hand experience, of any tunnels and things down there. Certainly, they have very deep tunnels and rooms under there for the nuclear tests. I don't know if they go down to 3000 feet. So, I think someone recently just [was] killed, I think, at 1500 feet underground. Yeah, that was in the papers, so everyone knows they at least go down that deep.

"Roger #2": The information I have is most of those underground areas are about a thousand meters.

Lazar: Yeah, I really don't know how far they go down there. The thing that strikes me as unusual that you said there was a stainless steel atmosphere?

"Roger #2": Yes, that's the way he described it. In other words, they were putting up sheets of stainless steel because apparently they had drilled with soe kind of machine this vast complex underground, and the tunnels, and they had to put something to cover that.

Lazar: Oh, okay, I understand what you're talking about. In fact, I happen to know of someone who drills those tunnels down there.

Goodman: Oooo, all right.

"Roger #2": Hey, these machines, are they the type that go through and push... and compact the earth to the side and have square corners and so forth, compacting, leaving no residue?

Lazar: I really don't remember how the person described it to me. I think it's a 24 foot diameter drill, essentially, that is driven, and it's hydrolically operated and they just drive the thing.

"Roger #2": Yeah, but it must not leave any residue, then?

Lazar: Yeah, probably not. Either that or it channels it out backwards and somehow is relayed out of the hole.

Goodman: All right, Roger #2, thanks for your call.

"Roger #2": Okay. You bet. Thank you very much.

Goodman: Okay, bye-bye. Bob Lazar, Bob Lazar is my guest. He is in studio here in Las Vegas. If you have a question for Bob Lazar, feel free to give us a call. All our lines are kind of tied up right now, but jot down the phone number: 451-5834. From out of state, it's area code 702-451-5834. And, of course, that brand new member line, the one that Jeff used in Canyon Lake, California, is available for you at 702-451-5655. Let's go to Line 5 and talk with Guardian Angel. Hello, Guardian Angel.

"Guardian Angel": Good evening, Billy.

Goodman: Good evening.

"Guardian Angel": You have a wonderful show, tonight.

Goodman: Thank you.

"Guardian Angel": I'd like to ask Bob a question, if he's...

Goodman: He's right there waiting.

"Guardian Angel": ...if he feels secure after he's let this out, if he's had--and I pray not, which I will keep in our prayers--that no one has made any attempt on you at all.

Lazar: Well, they made attempts on me before, but not since... and as far as feeling secure, no I don't. I'm just, I'm really waiting for the repurcussions.

"Guardian Angel": Well, I wish you would really stay close to the show, with Billy. I think we would enjoy talking and asking questions of you, and you better believe they would have to answer to us if all of a sudden you come up wrong.

Lazar: [Laughs.] Well, that's good to hear.

"Guardian Angel": Can I ask a question? You said Wednesday nights are normally when these saucers are seen.

Lazar: Right.

"Guardian Angel": And can I ask you what your clearance was out there at S-4?

Lazar: [Pause.]

"Guardian Angel": I don't need to...

Lazar: Yeah, I'd rather not say because the name is...

"Guardian Angel": Okay, I understand.

Lazar: It's 38 levels above "Q" clearance, which is the highest civilian clearance. What is supposed to be the highest civilian clearance.

"Guardian Angel": Okay, I know what you're talking about. Well, I appreciate asking these questions, and as I said, we as the audience will keep you in our prayers and we pray you will stay close to the station so we can be alert. And Billy, we appreciate your show.

Goodman: All right, thank you. Thank you, Guardian Angel. Okay, Bob Lazar. 38 levels above "Q" level! Oh, my god! We just started hearing about that recently, about the "Q" clearance and what that meant, and you're 38 levels above that. It starts just at "Q" and then goes from there, is that correct? One, two, three... Is that how it works?

Lazar: I don't know what the intermediate levels are.

Goodman: You don't know if there are 37 others; it's just a number they gave you, is that correct?

Lazar: No, there are 37 others. I don't know..

Goodman: There are 37 others! Wow! Okay. Okay, we have a little time to take a break. Sip on some of that coffee you like, guys, and we're going to do some Road Watch America, catch up with a couple of our sponsors who make this all possible. And you, ladies and gentlemen, stick around. We're going to keep Bob Lazar here as long as he wants to stay. Can you stay? Are you in any hurry at all?

Lazar: Only to get to sleep.

Goodman: Stay with us. This is going to be wonderful. You're going to enjoy it as much as everybody else does, and we'll get back with Bob Lazar after these messages.

[Traffic Report for Los Angeles and Phoenix.]

[Ad for Slot-o-Fun Casino in Las Vegas.]

Goodman: Hey, you're listening to the Billy Goodman Happening. We are in Las Vegas. My guest tonight is Bob Lazar. We'll get back to him and your telephone calls, but first this reminder about the Vagabond Inn on Koval Lane between Harman and Flamingo. The next time you're coming to Las Vegas, check out the Vagabond Inn. Call Richard Viera and his friendly staff. Boy they will treat you like royalty. There's no other place that you want to stay because it's conveniently located and beautiful, comfortable rooms. One block away from Caesar's Palace, from the Dunes, right next door to Bally's, next to Maxim and Bourbon Street. Really a convenient location, a super place to stay, the Vagabond Inn. Of course, they have video power; they have slot machines, and they even have a piano bar, and all kinds of things... 24 hour restaurants. They have all the comforts of home at very, very reasonable prices. The Vagabond Inn, that's the place to stay the next time you're going to Las Vegas. And if you have a group or organization, they have group rates that are unbelievable. Matter of fact, the Royal Air Force stays at the Vagabond Inn. We don't know why they're in town, but they were telling me that they do their practicing up at Nellis Air Force Base and they're learning some things up there, but they stay there. The National Finals Rodeo's going to be coming in town pretty soon, but call the Vagabond Inn at 702-731-2111.

[Ad for KVEG.]

Goodman: Okay, Bob Lazar and Gene Huff, Merry Mary is presenting you with something that, in case you have to keep any notes in there, that is an official Space Pen. Now, probably you've heard about those. That's the Fisher Space Pen, the very same one the astronauts and the cosmonauts use. I mean, you'll never need another pen. You can write straight up in the air, on anything--grease, oil, anything at all.

Okay, Bob Lazar is my guest, and let's take some more calls. Let's go down to Scott in L.A. Scott in L.A. And let's see what he has to say and what kind of question he has. He always has good questions. Hi, Scott.

"Scott": Good evening, Billy.

Goodman: How are you doing.

"Scott": Oh, pretty good.

Goodman: Terrific. What's happening.

"Scott": Well, I wanted to talk with Mr. Lazar.

Goodman: I thought that's waht you wanted. Go right ahead.

"Scott": Well, forgive me, I've heard your name thrown about a few times, but I have not been able to see the television program that you were interviewed on in Las Vegas, so I really have no idea, so excuse some of these questions if they don't sound like they make any sense, but I'm trying to understand, how far are you willing to go with the information you're talking about on the air tonight?

Lazar: Not really that far. I mean, my whole purpose was to protest myself, not really to be the one to bring all the information forward and spearhead this whole thing. So, I mean, there have been plenty of people before me, but, you know, it was just to protect myself. The reason I'm doing this here tonight, I've just heard a lot of strange things and some incorrect information, you know, on the show, and I just thought I could clear a couple things up for some people.

"Scott": So in other words, your end goal to taking this on the air is, in other words, just to protect yourself.

Lazar: Yeah, that's my only goal. I mean, it's a selfish goal, but that's what I was thinking of at the time, and it was my only avenue to do this.

"Scott": I see. How open and verifiable is your own background?

Lazar: Well, that's been gone through, and it's a painful experience to go through, to have other people go through your background. I have a colorful background. George Knapp has dug through... Well, I guess you're not familiar with the station out here, the CBS affiliate.

"Scott": I've heard a few things.

Lazar: Well, they;ve rummaged through it. George Knapp even came with me up to Los Alamos, New Mexico, and, you know, saw where I worked and things and spoke to some of the collegues I worked with.

"Scott": Right. What I'm getting at is between... You've already established your goal and determining how far you are willing to go with this. The things you are saying are somewhat fantastic, of course, and I'm trying to determine if you are open to any sort of a thorough background investigation, to be able to determine what you are saying has the possibilities of showing a great deal of truth.

Lazar: Well, I've essentially submitted to a thorough background investigation.

"Scott": Well, by who?

Lazar: Well, the station that did the UFO special.

"Scott": Well, forgive me if I tell you I don't consider that to be too thorough if it's by a station. I'm a private investigator, and I don't know if you're familiar [with] what we're trying to attempt right now, but we have 20 different investigators. In fact, we just brought on someone new up in the Las Vegas area, and we're trying to get to the bottom of this whole matter. We really want to bring out the truth, because there are a lot of stories out there now. And you sound fairly credible on the air, and you're the kind of gentleman that one of us would certainly enjoy talking to, but unfortunately in this sort of subject, one really has to establish some credibility to begin with, and that is the sort of background I'm talking about. Something that would be done by a professional investigator.

Lazar: Uh-huh. [Pause.]

"Scott": Does that sit well with you?

Lazar: Well... As far as the background, that sort of thing, that's currently all being done by, like I said, by the people down at the news station.

"Scott": You see, our problem is that we are trying to put together an effort here to really get to the bottom of this whole thing, to the truth.

Lazar: Right, I understand that, but you have to understand my reluctance of having everyone that calls me want to start off at Ground Zero and go all the way back and go through...

"Scott": We don't consider ourselves everyone.

Lazar: I mean, excuse me, but I do. I mean, everyone has been calling me and my... I mean you can imagine a "Q" clearance is a thorough background investigation. I've had a "Q" clearance for a long time before I ever got into the project out here. But, like I said, I don't want to spearhead everything. My intention was to come on and say what I had to do to essentially protect myself, and I'd just as soon leave it at that.

"Scott": Right, well, we're not looking for a spearhead. We're only trying to get to some end, and the only way we can get to that end are finding people who are coming forward and giving us information that we can verify as being credible. It doesn't necessarily mean it has to be released or any of your integrity or your identity has to be bandied around in the public. It just is a method of helping us get toward the end the we are tyring to achieve.

Lazar: There's just, like, twenty-five people that have the same request as you.

"Scott": Okay, well, I think that our request is probably a little bit different. If you're not familiar with what we are trying to do, I guess I'm at a loss.

Goodman: He probably has no idea what we... Maybe I can touch on that, and, Scott, thanks for the call.

"Scott": Okay.

Goodman: Let me tell you what's going on here. Now, I don't know if it's necessary in your case because you are, like , 38 levels above "Q," as you say there, but there's an investigative force that has joined. Basically, what we were talking about earlier. They are really... It is probably the first legitimate organization that is checking out UFO claims and other claims. Okay? It's the very first one. This organization is out of Southern California, and they have offices out in San Francisco. They have over 20 investigators, and, as Scott just said--I wasn't even aware of that but I just heard that tonight--they now have an investigator--We're talking about private investigators. You know what we're talking about. There's one in Las Vegas. And what they're trying to do is they're trying to amass everything they possibly can, 'cause they want to get to the bottom of it once and for all. And I think--You say you have 25 others.--this might be... I don't know what they need from you. Having a 38... whatever that means, I guess you can show papers, you have a 38 "Q" clearance and that would end it. And it could go forward from that, because you're waying things that I know they want to get into. That's what it boils down to. Okay, Bob Lazar is my guest, and he'd love to talk with you. If you have any questions for Bob Lazar, feel free to call us. Let''s go to, we'll go to "606" and then Deadhead, but first let's go to Kevin in Encino, a new member. A new member. Hello, Kevin.

"Kevin": Yeah, Hi, Billy. How you doing?

Goodman: Fine, Thank you.

"Kevin": I had a question for Bob.

Goodman: Go right ahead.

"Kevin": I was a little interested in the condition and shape of the disks that he claims he saw up in Area S-4, on the range.

Lazar: The condition and shape? The condition, it seemed new, as I said on the TV program.

"Kevin": I did not catch your TV program.

Lazar: Okay, I'm sorry.

"Kevin": I'm a new listener here.

Lazar: It seemed almost brand new, like I said, if I know what a new flying saucer looks like. As far as the shape...

"Kevin": The general configuration.

Lazar: Have you ever seen any of the Billy Mieres photographs?

"Kevin": I've seen a couple, yes.

Lazar: There's one that it bears a striking resemblance to. It's one that I coined the term the sport model. It doesn't have any of those weird protrusions. It's a slim, thin disk with ridges in it, and it bears and incredible resemblance to that. I tent to think that it is that disk.

"Kevin": And approximate dimensions of the...

Lazar: I'd say approxiately 30-35, somewhere in there. About 15 feet tall.

"Kevin": How close were you allowed to the object.

Lazar: Oh, I stood inside the doorway.

"Kevin": Stood inside the doorway, huh? Were you able to determine, possibly, what the metallic makeup was of the craft.

Lazar: No, no.

"Kevin": Okay, well, it's been very interesting listening to you, and we'll continue on with you here tonight.

Lazar: Thank you.

Goodman: Thank you, Kevin. Thanks for the call. Okay, let;s just say... Bob, did you touch it at any time?

Lazar: Oh, yeah.

Goodman: What does it feel like?

Lazar: It feels like ordinary metal.

Goodman: Ordinary metal, really?

Lazar: Yeah.

Goodman: Like what, aluminum-type feel, or what?

Lazar: Well, can you feel the difference between steel and aluminum?

Goodman: No really. Steel is colder than aluminum, I understand, you know, if you really touch it. You can get your fingers to stick to steel.

Lazar: Well, it felt like metal. I mean, I'm not a metalurgist, but...

Goodman: The reason I say that is because there have been many reports--and I guess maybe they're false, now--but they say that it's almost like a very, very thin feel to it.

Lazar: Well, I couldn't touch the thickness of it. I felt the outside of the skin, so it could be a micron thick or a foot thick I wouldn't know.

Goodman: So you never saw the metal itself off to the side; you just saw it all connected.

Lazar: No, not pieces of it, no, just the disk itself.

Goodman: What was the disk doing, may I ask.

Lazar: Sitting there.

Goodman: Like, how was it sitting, like on a bottom like...?

Lazar: Yeah, it was actually... There weren't tripod legs. It was actually resting on the bottom of the disk.

Goodman: Wow. Were there people milling around it?

Lazar: Not at the time that I walked up to it. There were people in the area, yeah.

Goodman: Is that the only one you ever saw, by the way?

Lazar: No, I saw the other ones, but at a great distance.

Goodman: Oh, I see. What were they doing?

Lazar: They were just parked in the hangers.

Goodman: Like an airplane.

Lazar: Yeah, essentially.

Goodman: You never saw them land or take off.

Lazar: No, no, never. I don't even know if they were operational.

Goodman: Oh, okay. Bob Lazar is my guest, and let's go and talk with Deadhead Dean. Deadhead Dean. Hello, Deadhead Dean. Go for it.

"Deadhead Dean": Yeah, hello. First of all, Bob Lazar, I'd like to saythat I feel for you about that phone call a couple of minutes ago, about they wanted to investigate you some more.

Lazar: Well, thanks.

"Deadhead Dean": But, to get to something else that's sort of technical, I took a class in quantum physics in college.

Lazar: That's a fun class, isn't it?

"Deadhead Dean": Well, it was for me, but we studied a lot about gravity, and there's a question I want to ask you--It's a little technical.--just to see if you can tell me anything, if you know anything about it. But of course we studied about gravitons....

Lazar: Okay, the theory of gravitons is wrong.

"Deadhead Dean": Well, that's what I was going to ask you, if you knew anything about it.

Lazar: Yeah.

"Deadhead Dean": Because what we were told is that...

Lazar: But physics has always done that. Where there is a question, they create a particle. You must know what I am talking about, photons and things like that.

"Deadhead Dean": Right. Well, see, what I was going to ask you was, if you had found or read anything that confirmed the existance of gravitons.

Lazar: No. Everything denied the existance of gravitons. In fact, gravity--I don't know if this is the first time I've said this.--There are actually two... Gravity is a wave, and there are actually two waves that are misconstrued as one force. They're called Gravity "A" and "B."

"Deadhead Dean": So, what's your general attitude about quantum physics, the quantum theory?

Lazar: Well, you know, that can last all night. You know, it's... If you want to talk to me privately about that, I'd be happy to talk to you.

"Deadhead Dean": Yeah, because I'm interested in how it connects with the grand unified field theories, because, you know, we were sort of told that, you know, if we could sort of confirm the existance of some of these quantum particles we could fit it...

Lazar: Right. There are...

"Deadhead Dean": Anyway, I think I got the answer about the gravitons.

Lazar: If... I don't know how you... I don't want to say my number over the air. That would be a disaster.

"Deadhead Dean": Right, right.

Lazar: You could write in care of the station, and Billy could get it to me and I could write back to you. But the unified field theory is a lot more simple... Like they say, the beautiful theory will be the unified field theory, and it is essentially a lot simpler than physics is after right now.

"Deadhead Dean": Okay, there's just one very quick thing. I heard you on the news program, at one point you said that the craft you saw, the extraterrestrial craft, were from another solar system completely. Do you believe that because you know where they are from, or because you just ruled out that any of the other planets in this solar system are habitable.

Lazar: No, that's because I know where they're from.

"Deadhead Dean": I see, okay, that's all I wanted to know.

Goodman: Hey, Deadhead Dean, great questions.

"Deadhead Dean": Yeah, thanks for coming forward, Bob.

Lazar: Well, thank you.

Goodman: Take care, guy. Bye-bye. Deadhead Dean. Boy, those were great questions, huh? You enjoy that stuff?

Lazar: Yeah.

Goodman: I mean, these people know what they are talking about. Guess who's coming up next? An aerospace engineer, standing by in Los Angeles. And we'll talk with him, and you'll hear the exchange between the aerospace engineer and Bob Lazar, right before your very ears on your Billy Goodman Happening. Stick around for it on KVEG.

[Ad for Big-O Tire Stores.]

Ad: Sunday, January 7th, here in Las Vegas at the Showboat Hotel, it's a night with Bill Cooper. Regarded as the nation's leading authority on UFOs. He plans a three hour presentation, including visuals of UFOs, drawings of aliens sketched by eyewitnesses, a startling video tape regarding the JFK assassination, evidence that a live being--alien being--being held captive in New Mexico, on Evening of Astonishment, a show you'll talk about for years and years. And your special host will be Billy Goodman, of Billy Goodman Happening, heard on Superstation AM-840 KVEG in Las Vegas, 10 to 1. That's a night with Bill Cooper, Sunday, January 7th at 5 p.m. Call the Showboat at 702-385-9190 for ticket information.

[Caller's introduction missing from transcribed tape.]

"Leonard": Fine.

Goodman: Good.

"Leonard": Say listen, Billy. I read about your progra here in a local newspaper some weeks back, and I just started tuning in the other night.

Goodman: Well, I'm glad you have.

"Leonard": I'm an aerospace engineer, and I'm interested in virtually anything that flies.

Goodman: Terrific.

"Leonard": I've got about 25 years in the business, and I worked on a lot of fighter planes and mostly commercial transports, and I've heard a lot of people call into your show and also some other shows with trans-atomospheric vehicles going to Venus, this sort of thing, and [laughs] and it always [releases] kind of a chuckle in me.

Goodman: Okay, do you have a question for my g--...

"Leonard": [indecipherable] three vehicles. One is a single stage orbital vehicles that's supposed come back down, not go to Venus.

Goodman: Okay, but do you have a question for my guest tonight?

"Leonard": Yes. I was going to ask Bob, physics is kind of a hobby of mine, and I just... I've been reading a book by Reichenbach, Hans Reichenbach on the theory of space-time geometry.

Lazar: Uh-huh.

"Leonard": And Reichenbach states that--this kind of surprises me, as I say this is kind of a hobby of mine, I'm not really a physicist, I'm more of a metal bender but--that time is not the fourth dimension. And I'm wondering, you say this vehicle has three gravity generators on them.

Lazar: Right.

"Leonard": Oh, what does it use to generate this intense gravity field. Is it neutron stars, or [laughs]...

Lazar: No, no, the gravity generators generate the gravity themselves.

"Leonard": I was being facitious there when I said neutron stars because as far as I know the only thing that could generate gravity is massive bodies.

Lazar: Right, that is the only thing that you know [laughs] that generates gravity, yeah.

"Leonard": And I was just curious as to how this sort of thing worked, and I could understand how they would bend space-time and lens it, but the thing that bothers me is you say that it stretched space-time and then the vehicle follows the space-time, continually you'd say, I guess?

Lazar: Not continually. It essentially attaches itself to the distorted portion of space-time.

"Leonard": Uh-huh.

Lazar: And then follows... returns with the distortion. It's quite a bizarre... You kind of see what I'm saying? It's quite of a bizarre thing to think about.

"Leonard": I begin to see a glimmer here. This is the most fascinating thing I've heard.

Lazar: It is. It's... I mean, it's... I would have lived up there. I would have worked for no pay. It was just so fascinating to me, and I just became enveloped with it. It's essentially new physics. There's a lot that's very difficult to grasp. There's no three dimentional analogies. There's a lot of current theories--the superstring theory, if physics is a hobby, you've read about that?--You know, they go into eleven dimensions and things like that.

"Leonard": And higher.

Lazar: You begin to grab at straws after a while. Every time you get stuck, you say, well--oh, another dimension will handle that, and you go on and on and on. And the same thing with particles and it's...

"Leonard": They've concluded now there's only three generations of particles, and I was wondering what you thought about that, because gravitons and these super-luminal particles would have been the fourth generation.

Lazar: You mean the generations like the leptons and so forth?

"Leonard": And the quarks.

Lazar: Yeah, okay. Well, a quark, you know I can argue about quark theory, too. You know, there again, that's a tremendous discussion in itself.

Goodman: All right, Leonard, thanks for the call.

"Leonard": Oh, okay, well thank you.

Goodman: Okay, yeah, that's great stuff. Aerospace engineer talking with a physicist, right here, right before your very ears. We're talking with Bob Lazar. We're going to take a little break for some news. You guys get up, stretch you legs, relax, and we'll come back after new with more of your questions for Bob Lazar, the scientist who has revealed tonight for the first time that, there are no spaceships at Area 51. They're at S-4, which is like 10 miles south of Area 51. So if you're heading on up to Groom Lake tonight, you know, and you get to the 29-1/2 mile marker, don't look straight ahead; look to your left. You're liable to see something buzzing out there. What's tonight, Tuesday? No, tomorrow night's the best night. He says Wednesday's probably the best night. But you're listening to Billy Goodman Happening. We'll be here until one o'clock or until they come to take me away, which ever comes first. And we'll be talking more with Bob Lazar. Let's remind you that tomorrow night, two guest coming on: Micheal Calum , Micheal Calum , who's getting involved with this UFO phenomenon. And Michael Calum of course is a movie star out of "Double Exposure." He was in "Cat Ballou." He originally was in "West Side Story." We'll talk about him, and then after that Crista Tilton. She'll be back, and she'll be talking about her abduction and her underground excursion, things of that nature. That's coming up tommorow night. You stick around for that. Of course, on Thursday night, we have James Tollison with the Free Enterprise System. And Friday night, Bill Cooper. Those are some of the things you might want to put down on your calendar. We're going to take a little break for news. We'll be back right after news with more of your Billy Goodman Happening.

[News]

Goodman: Ah, you got us. It's the Billy Goodman Happening direct from Las Vegas, and my guest tonight is Bob Lazar. Bob is a scientist. Now where are you actually working right now, Bob?

Lazar: I'm just... I have my own company.

Goodman: Okay, so are you like inventing things? What do you do?

Lazar: Ah... I'd rather not say.

Goodman: Okay, that's your priviledge, sir. I just thought I'd give you, you know, a plug and then you get some business out of it.

Lazar: Well, I still conduct business with the government in a technical aspect.

Goodman: That was like a consultant type thing, maybe? Does that fit in there?

Lazar: You could say that.

Goodman: Okay, I will, if you don't mind. All right, let's go and talk with E.T.C., whatever that means. Etcetera, or whatever the case may be. Hello, E.T.C.

"E.T.C.": Yes, good afternoon, or evening.

Goodman: Whatever.

"E.T.C.": Bob, it's great to talk with you.

Lazar: Thanks.

"E.T.C.": Let me ask you something. Does M-42 mean anything to you?

Lazar: M-42. [Pause.] Not off the top of my head.

"E.T.C.": Okay, very good. How do you rate Hawkings?

Lazar: Steven Hawkings?

"E.T.C.": Yes.

Lazar: Well, there's... There's a lot I could say about him. A lot of the basic theory is incorrect, but he's a very thorough guy. Have you read his book?

"E.T.C.": Yes, I have. I'm an experimental researcher, and I'm interest-- I think we're in agreement on what your stuttering about. I stutter about him a little bit, too. See, you're a physicist; now how far back do you go as far as travelling backwards through time? Can you go to the Big Bang theory and then subscribe to it?

Lazar: Ah... I'll go with the Big Bang theory, but there are so many other variables, so many other things really could have happened, I don't... You know, that's more of a cosmology [laughs] viewpoint. I'm concerned mainly with particle physics, high energy physics and that sort of thing, but...

"E.T.C.": Well isn't that where it all begins?

Lazar: Yeah, it is. But when you're talking on a macro scale like that, you're sliding out of my field of expertise. I do subscribe to the Big Bang theory. There was a Big Bang. Where the initial particle came from, you know there's a great debate about that.

"E.T.C.": Could you give me an estimate... creation versus evolution. Was the Big Bang a part of an evolution or was it part of a creation? And was there a creation or evolution before that?

Lazar: Well that's a chicken or the egg question to me. I would say that the Big Bang was followed by a natural evolution, though I don't believe things just evolved to where everything is now without interaction. Does that...?

"E.T.C.": Very good. I guess I'm going back too far. You seem to be a very logical scientist to me. You don't want to go out on a limb on theories. You want to stick to the facts.

Lazar: I'd really rather do that.

"E.T.C.": And that's very good. And what is the facts to you? How far can you really trace us back, trace your science back to absolutes, where you drop off from absolutes into your theories?

Lazar: Probably from the instant of the detonation of the Big Bang.

"E.T.C.": Okay, that's the microseconds, right?

Lazar: Well I'd say even before that.

"E.T.C.": Okay, very good. Do you feel the new telescopes coming up into space will help solve that mystery?

Lazar: Oh, yeah... It'll certainly pose a lot more questions, though.

["Time up" tone.]

"E.T.C.": Yeah, I agree. Hey, it was a great pleasure. Thank you.

Goodman: Thank you E.T.C. What is this Big Bang theory. I can hear everybody all over the West Coast: Billy, ask hi what the Big Bang theory is. What is the Big Bang theory?

Lazar: Ah... Essentially how the universe was initiated.

Goodman: Oh.

Lazar: I think the way that was detected was, someone looked and just happened to notice that all the galaxies were moving away from a certain point at certain speeds, and they did a computer analysis and--I'm not really sure how this progressed, but they were able to reverse the directions and everything came to a single point and assumed that there was one time an unbelievably massive particle that exploded and, you know...

Goodman: Like a meteorite type thing, is that what you're referring to?

Lazar: Well...

Goodman: Bigger than that?

Lazar: No, actually smaller than that. It gets really crazy, but it's...

Goodman: Okay. But, I mean, this thing did explode...

Lazar: Right, there was a tremendous explosion, threw everything out, gasses, and things condensed into matter and essentially formed the universe. That's the Big Bang theory.

Goodman: Okay. Bob Lazar is my guest. It's a priviledge to have a physicist, right here in studio, and this is your opportunity of a lifetime to ask him any questions. Bob Lazar actually saw with his own eyes--a given number... How many flying saucers have you seen?

Lazar: Nine.

Goodman: Nine flying saucers, and you know for a fact they did not come from here. Right? Or am I putting words in your mouth, I'm sorry, I shouldn't ask that. Where do you think they came from originally.

Lazar: Yeah, I didn't see them delivered here. My best guestimation is that they came from another, well, another world.

Goodman: And when they are flown in this S-4 area, are they flown by aliens or by military pilots?

Lazar: Well, they're either flown by remote control or flown by, you know, military pilots.

Goodman: Oh, remote control. Oh.

Lazar: Well, I say either remote control or people because I did not actually see who got into the disk.

Goodman: Ah, okay. Did it look like there was a lot of room?

Lazar: A lot of room in the disk?

Goodman: Yeah. Were they that large? I mean, how large were these things?

Lazar: No, there's not that much room inside. Yeah.

Goodman: Yeah, you have to be small, I imagine.

Lazar: Right.

Goodman: Okay, Bob Lazar is my guest. Let's go and talk with--This is going to be a good one.--Space Case. Are you ready for this? Space Case. Okay, Space Case, you're on the air everywhere on KVEG.

"Space Case": Hey, Bob?

Lazar: Yeah.

"Space Case": Nanu Nanu.

Lazar: Nanu Nanu to you.

"Space Case": Now, I got a question. I heard John Lear talking about drugs and hypnosis being used on individuals that are working with the E.T. project. And do you confirm that? And also...

[End of Transcribed portion (about half of broadcast)]

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