Bob Lazar on the Billy Goodman Happening
December 20, 1989
Goodman: What exactly does Area S-4 mean ?
Lazar: I really don't know. It might be referred to as "Site"
4 -- that might be what the "S" is for, but I really don't know.
There are THREE S-4's in all of the Nevada Test Site. The nuclear
test site itself is a small area, and it has "sites" or "areas" 1 to
29 or 30. The S-4 there, I think, is a nuclear reactor. There's an
S-4 just south of the Tonopah test range. And there's an S-4 -- the
one that I worked at -- just south of Groom Lake.
Goodman: Bob Lazar, while working there as a Government
scientist, saw not only one but as many as nine flying saucers. And
he's telling the whole world about it. He wants everybody to know
that in fact there are flying saucers out there. Last time you were
here, you never really told us what are their plans with these
flying saucers. Do you have any idea WHY we have flying saucers at
this point ?
Lazar: I guess it's just essentially research. The idea is to
back-engineer them, to go back and find out how they can be
duplicated using earthly materials and technology.
Caller: Is it possible these machines
travel in time back and forth ?
Lazar: It's certainly possible. Certainly, when you create
any artificial gravitational field, you technically move in your own
time. So technically, you do slip forward when you create your own
intense gravitational field.
Caller: BACK in time too ?
Lazar: Theoretically, that's possible. Exactly how you would
do that, I don't know off the top of my head.
Caller: So that could be used like a time machine, right ?
Lazar: Essentially yeah, that is --
Caller: For time travel ?
Lazar: -- that is possible.
Caller: Wow! That's really something !
Lazar: Yeah, that's science-fiction-like.
When you looked into the saucer, how does the hatch work ? How does it
seal up, and what are all of the mechanics involved ?
Lazar: The hatch -- or whatever it was -- was completely
removed; there was just an opening in the side of the craft.
Caller: Did the opening have any kind of sealing around it or a
Lazar: I really don't remember. 'Cause I was so interested in
looking inside, I didn't really catch a strong glimpse of the sealing
mechanism or any other thing around it.
Caller: When you were previously on Billy's show, you said you
looked into one, and it was all smooth like it had been a wax casting.
Lazar: Yeah, exactly.
Caller: Now, was that the only one you looked into ?
Lazar: No, it was the only one I looked into. The other ones I
just saw from a distance, so I don't know any detail about them.
Caller: And the one you looked into, was that the "Sport Model"
Lazar: Yes, exactly.
Caller: And that's the only one you saw fly as well ?
Caller: What was your work there ?
Lazar: Like I said before, it was essentially to back-engineer
the propulsion and power system.
Caller: So you weren't really involved in the mechanics of the
craft itself ?
Lazar: No, not at all.
Caller: But mostly just the Element 115 and all that kind of
stuff you were learning about ?
Goodman: What is gravity ?
Lazar: Gravity is a wave. It's a force, essentially, just like
electromagnetic waves are a different type of force. I really don't
know a good way to describe gravity.
Goodman: Einstein and other scientists really don't have an
answer for what gravity is, do they, totally; they don't really
understand it totally, do they ?
Lazar: No, no, not at all. In fact, I don't think we understand
ANYTHING about gravity.
Goodman: Why don't we just float away ourselves ? What keeps us
down on the planet ?
Lazar: That is the attractive force of gravity.
Goodman: Some people say it presses down, but it doesn't, does
Lazar: No, it doesn't. It's an attractive force. It's like, on
an atomic scale, the strong and weak nuclear forces hold the atoms
Goodman: Is your actual title government scientist or physicist
Lazar: You could use either one.
Goodman: You are no longer a government scientist or physicist,
Lazar: Not employed by the government.
Goodman: But you are continuing in the scientific field. What
do you do ?
Lazar: I design and build advanced radiation detection
equipment, mainly alpha radiation equipment for essentially use in
detecting plutonium for national laboratories.
long has that craft been on this earth ?
Lazar: I really don't know. I don't even know how long it's
been down at S-4.
Caller: Do you know where it originally landed ?
Lazar: No, you got me on all that stuff. They really never keep
me in as to --
Caller: It could have been here for years ?
Lazar: Yeah. Or it could have been brought in in pieces from
somewhere else, too.
Caller: Did you see just one craft or a number of craft ?
Lazar: I saw a number of them.
Caller: Did the other workers talk about it, where it came from,
or more they towed in, or whatever ?
Lazar: I don't know. There really wasn't that much conversation
Caller: Were you by yourself when you were investigating the
Lazar: Walking by myself. There were security people around me,
but when I crawled underneath on the sub-floor to look at the gravity
amplifiers, I got away from them. But there was no one right next to
me the whole time.
Caller: Any evidence of LIVE aliens held captive ?
Lazar: Nothing I could put my finger on.
Caller: Then you didn't get to see any at all then in that
Lazar: Nothing I could put my finger on.
Caller: Did the craft have sleeping quarters for aliens ? Is it
like a Star Trek craft ? What kind of craft is it ?
Lazar: No, it's pretty vacant inside. Granted, a couple of
things were removed; they were sawed off at the base. I don't know
what they were; I just saw little stumps on the ground, so I don't
know what was removed. But it doesn't look like it had anything like
sleeping quarters or anything like that.
Caller: Any writing you could detect or any language on the
Caller: Any panels, like a dashboard on a car ?
Lazar: Yeah. In fact, that was one of the things -- There was
more than one control panel set up, but it looks like one was removed.
Caller: Were these craft all from the same source? Were they
all identical ?
Lazar: No. Each craft was completely different in physical
appearance. I didn't get to look in depth at the other craft, but I
only fooled around with one.
Caller: What the heck is an
energy grid on our planet ?
Lazar: I don't know. I don't buy that theory or anything in
that book. It's a grid outlined over the entire globe, and at each
intersection there's an energy vortex of some kind. I'd rather not
comment since I don't buy it.
Caller: On TV you mentioned something about a time warp and a
folding over. What did you mean by that ?
Lazar: Right. It's how gravity, whether produced artificially
or naturally, distorts time and space.
Caller: I read about Nicola Tesla questioning Einstein's theory
of relativity. He says that energy DOESN'T come from matter. Where
does it come from if it doesn't come from matter ?
Lazar: That's a strange question. It can be EXTRACTED from
matter. But it can be extracted by other means, too. I really don't
understand that [question].
Caller: How can UFOs be kept
secret for 40 years ?
Lazar: I did pose that question to some people at S-4, and the
answer that I got was that it's the easiest thing TO keep secret
because of the subject matter.
Caller: Is that because it's tied in with a lot of
parapsychology-psychic-type stuff -- National Enquirer ?
Lazar: Maybe so. There is so much disinformation made so
available to the public via the tabloids and things like that that any
true information getting out is assumed to originate from those
Caller: Carl Sagan is a "people" scientist; he's brought
science down to the general public. What about getting him involved in
this somehow ?
Lazar: I imagine he's fairly open-minded. I've never met him.
Caller: He's one of the biggest UFO debunkers.
Lazar: He's going to need his own proof, as everyone should
require. It's impossible to make an absolute believer out of someone
that hasn't had hands-on experience or has seen something for
themselves. That's the way any scientist is going to look at it.
Caller: How far is Zeta Reticuli ?
Lazar: I think it's around 32 light years.
Caller: Do these ships travel faster than light ?
Lazar: It's an irrelevant question because they get around it
because they're not in a linear mode of travel. Since they're
distorting time and space, there's no true time reference. And since
velocity is distance over time, when you begin to fool around with
time, you really can't state a true velocity.
Caller: Re the SETI program -- the search for radio signals --
couldn't some of these observatories or telescopes be aimed at the
places where aliens supposedly come from ?
Lazar: RADIO waves and frequencies along that band aren't
utilized; it's GRAVITY wave communication, and a radio-telescope isn't
going to pick up anything of that sort.
Goodman: The way you got to see this UFO was not planned by
anyone wanting you to see it, right ? You were walking with security
and you went into a doorway. How did you describe that before ?
Lazar: It may have been planned by them. I had no advance
warning of it. I had been brought in a separate door the whole time,
and one specific time I was just led into the area where I worked --
through the hangar doors, which I had never been in before -- walked
directly by the craft, and began to slow down by it, and they said, "Just
keep walking; keep your eyes forward," and it was just like that.
Nothing was said, and I just went and sat down in an empty room.
Goodman: You went and sat down in an empty room after you saw
Lazar: Yeah, waited for this guy that I worked with, Barry, and
then we went to work on some of the work we were assigned to.
Goodman: What was some of the work that you actually did ? What
did you actually do at S-4 ? When you had an assignment, what would it
have been, for example ?
Lazar: Most of the time I worked there I was being briefed and
being brought up to date on what had been done before. Most of the
hands-on bench work was with the anti-matter reactor itself: being
shown how it operated, giving demonstrations, and things of that sort.
Goodman: There was practically no communication with your
fellow workers ?
Lazar: Right. They kept that to an absolute minimum. They were
on the buddy system: you always worked with someone, and that's the
person you communicated with, and there was really no cross-talk
Goodman: When you went there for the initial interview, you
said at the time they actually had a gun at your head --
Lazar: No, that was at the security briefing.
Goodman: Security, wherever that may be -- The initial
interview when you went to work at S-4 I'm talking about, that's not
when the gun was at your head ?
Goodman: When you went there, what was your understanding about
what you were going to be doing ?
Lazar: Some high-technology work, and I assumed they were
talking about some sort of gravitational propulsion system.
Goodman: Were you excited about that ?
Lazar: Oh yeah, very much so, because there was some talk about
that because it was something that I was interested in, something they
KNEW I was interested in, and that was the hint that I got.
Goodman: And did it come to fruition? Did what you were told
you were going to do actually happen ?
Goodman: How long were you actually there before you let people
know what was going on up there ? How many months or days or whatever
Lazar: Probably a couple of months.
Goodman: Every time you went there you literally had to fly up,
land at Groom Lake, take a bus that was blacked out at the windows --
Goodman: -- and no communication on the bus. What were you
thinking as a young man. You're a very young man; let's face it.
Lazar: I'm not that young.
Goodman: Well, you're a very young man; I think you are. Anyway,
what were you thinking? Were you just saying, well this just goes with
the territory and I'm just going to go along with this ?
Lazar: Oh yeah, you bet! I would have done that and much more
just to be involved with the project.
Goodman: Ah! The excitement was just being there, being a part
of what was going on behind the scenes. The secret part about it ?
Lazar: Oh sure. I would have taken a LOT more crap than they
had dealt out.
Goodman: Can you picture it ? He's in his thirties, sitting on
a bus, and accepting the fact, Okay, I'm going to work this morning,
not talking to his compadres on the bus, is looking straight ahead,
blackened-out windows, not driving on asphalt, all dirt roads. . .
Didn't you ask yourself why they didn't do anything about the dirt
Lazar: It was a good dirt road. A lot of the roads around there
are dirt, in fact almost all are.
Caller: Previously, you
described the central column of the propulsion device as being a wave
guide. There was a disk toward the bottom of this thing down near the
anti-matter generator that spins. What is that disk made of --
Lazar: There's no spinning disk.
Caller: What is the disk made of ? Is it a capacitor ?
Lazar: A disk ? The wave guide extends down, and it widens out
and sits on the curved portion of the reactor. The bottom of the
reactor is a plate, but nothing rotates or moves; it's all connected
Caller: Is that plate a capacitor ?
Caller: Well, what is it made of ?
Lazar: Metal. That's the only way I can describe it; I don't
know what kind; it's [electric-] --
Caller: Did anyone determine the kind of metal it was ?
Lazar: Not to my knowledge.
Caller: I understand that part of the propulsion system
involves a very large capacitor -- which is usually the entire lower
surface of the disk -- that can make use of something along the lines
of the [Bifield] Brown Effect. Do you know what the components of the
dielectric material in that capacitor are ?
Lazar: Well, if the bottom of the disk is one plate of the
capacitor, then the dielectric material would be the air -- if you're
going to look at the earth as another plate of the capacitor. But as
far as the capacitor being integral to the actual craft itself, no, I
found no evidence of that.
Caller: I understand there's an antenna section in this device;
what is the resonant frequency that that operates at ?
Lazar: The resonant frequency of the gravity wave I do know,
but I don't know it off hand; I just can't remember it.
Caller: Can you give me a ballpark, like 2,000 kilohertz ?
Lazar: I really don't remember. It's a really odd frequency.
Caller: Is it measured in kilohertz or gigahertz or megahertz ?
Lazar: I really don't remember.
Caller: When you first started to go public and were meeting
with people at John Lear's house, I understand that there were a
number of witnesses at those first meetings. One of them claims that
you did say that you had seen an extraterrestrial while working inside
one of those saucers, trying to back-engineer the propulsion system,
and that you had been looking out through a doorway or through a
porthole in the side of the device and that you had actually seen an
extraterrestrial walking around on the outside of one of those devices.
Lazar: Devices meaning disks ?
Caller: So you're saying you've never seen an extraterrestrial
Lazar: I really don't want to get into that.
Caller: The reason I ask is because someone else is claiming
that you have.
Lazar: Well, stated the way you did, no I didn't. And I never
did look and see an extraterrestrial. As the story goes, and the
reason I never bring it up, is because I thought I saw something once
-- walking at a glance -- and that's all there is to it. And I won't
stand on that fact because it was just a fleeting glimpse; when I came
back, whatever was there was gone; it could have been a million things.
Caller: I have a contact that claims that you were responsible
for determining that Element 115 was not in fact necessary to operate
an anti-gravity propulsion device in the earth's magnetic field. Is
that true ?
Lazar: No, it's the exact opposite.
Caller: Why are
you going public ? There's obviously a lot of other staff on the
project that senses a great degree of loyalty.
Lazar: The straw that broke the camel's back was, after I left
the program I became concerned about what happens now. I made a
routine request for my birth certificate, which I needed just for I.D.
purposes, and I was told that it doesn't exist, I wasn't even born at
that hospital. I sat on that for about a week and just wondered, and
then I began to inquire at previous jobs and also at other schools,
and that information was also gone. And I got the idea that soon
someone was going to disappear, so that's when I contacted the TV
station and essentially let everything out.
Caller: But you left the program under very amicable
Lazar: No, that's a long, involved story that I really don't
want to get into.
Caller: Are you afraid of any repercussions from the govenment
Lazar: Oh yeah, I was really concerned at one time.
Caller: Less so now ?
Lazar: Yeah, less so now, but you still keep in the back of
your mind . . .
Caller: If anything would happen to you now, that would cause
such an uproar in itself, the last thing they would do would be to go
anywhere near you.
Lazar:Exactly. As someone said on the media somewhere, if
there're following me now, it's to make sure nothing happens to me.
Caller: Did you witness any working models of the vehicle that
were operational ?
Lazar: I only saw one operate. I saw one at close range while I
was at the area and then at extreme distance -- about 15 miles, when I
brought some friends up to look at it.
Caller: Using the technology that's being used, the craft are
very agile, aren't they ?
Lazar: Oh yes, very, in one specific mode of travel.
Caller: In one direction at a time ?
Lazar: No. There's two modes of travel. There's a low-speed
mode and a high-speed mode. I don't remember what they called them;
they had a specific name for them.
Caller: What was the size of the staff working on the project ?
Lazar: 22 people that I knew of, in the area that I worked in.
How extensive the rest of the facility was, I don't know.
Caller: I understand you were frustrated at the size of the
staff. You thought it should have been larger ?
Lazar: Oh yeah! Much !
Caller: More could have been learned about the program more
Lazar: Sure! I mean, 22 people, c'mon !
Caller: Do you think we understand enough about the alien
propulsion technology to build our own vehicles, using this technology
-- or are we even close ? Do we know what's going on ?
Lazar: Yeah, we know what's going on, but the problem is
substituting earthly materials, and there's no easy way getting around
Caller: How is Element 115 involved in the construction of the
Lazar: Everything seems to come down to 115. It's a super-heavy
element. It seems that as you get into the heavier elements -- and I'm
sure this property extends into as-yet-undiscovered elements in excess
of atomic number 115 -- that the ATOMIC gravity wave inside the atoms
holding things together begins to extend outside of the atomic
structure itself, and it's this wave that can be tapped off in
quantity -- small quantity, actually. This wave can be amplified,
contained, and used for a useful purpose.
Goodman: Are your radiation detectors for nuclear power plants
Lazar: Not nuclear power plants; weapon . . .where they use
Goodman: Like the latest flight above us now ?
Lazar: The Galileo ?
Goodman: Are you involved with that, Mr. Lazar ?
Lazar: Not directly. Someone may have used our probes to detect
Caller: Are they flying these vehicles within our city
areas at any time ?
Lazar: I really don't know. I was only witness to a couple
tests. I don't know how far they go. I think they're very careful with
them. I personally don't think they're whipping them around the solar
system because I don't know how profficient they are at operating them.
Caller: Do you read any UFO literature in book form ?
Lazar: Nothing in book form. I occasionally get handed little
tidbits here and there and glance at them, but no, I don't delve into
Caller: You mentioned some stuff on the Billy Meiers case. Have
you read any of that information because you had mentioned that you
had seen some pictures ?
Lazar: Yeah, I looked at the, what caught my eye was certainly
the -- whatever that book's called -- Contact From the Plaeides or
something -- but it's essentially a picture book; there's really no
text in it. One of the craft in there looks strikingly similar to the
one I call the Sport Model.
Caller: What did you think of that similarity ? Did that puzzle
Lazar: Yeah, because originally I had kind of discounted the
Billy Meiers stuff, but that craft looks AMAZINGLY like the one that I
worked on. And another thing, somewhere in that book they had a
picture of a grassy field with three round indents in the ground. Now
that would coincide with the three gravity amplifiers in the bottom of
the craft and the imprint that they do make, so that kind of makes me
believe that that really did occur.
Caller: You said you didn't necessarily share the same views of
Bill Cooper and John Lear as far as the big picture was concerned ?
Lazar: I'm not exactly sure what each individual story is. John
Lear has a specific story; Bill Cooper has a specific story. I do
agree with both of them in the fact that, yeah, there's alien craft
here and so on and so forth. John Lear thinks there're here to use us
for food. I don't exactly remember Bill Cooper's story. But the little
intricate parts here and there -- I just haven't seen any evidence
MYSELF of it. I don't know what these gentlemen have found out on
Caller: From everything you know about it, do you believe there
is a possibility there are benevolent creatures in the universe ?
Lazar: Oh sure.
Goodman: How would you describe this picture ?
Lazar: It's an interesting picture. It looks like a formation
of four and a formation of two flying saucers.
Goodman: That picture came in a box delivered to the Vagabond
Inn. No name, no nothing. Just a note: "This picture was taken from
the 29-1/2-mile marker on the day that I had the best time of my life,
thanks to you, Billy Goodman Happening." That's all.
Lazar: There's even a distortion in the cloud behind a couple
of them; that's really interesting.
Goodman: That is right up there where people have gone. Bob
mentioned the same thing that I said when I saw that: "Boy, that's a
Look at the smile on Bob Lazar's face !
Lazar: It would be interesting to magnify it to some degree.
Very interesting. They're glowing the color that the crafts glow.
Goodman: I don't know who you are out there, but I thank you
very, very, very much, because that is absolute, positive proof that
they are up there in the sky having a good time. Do you think that
they're flown by alien beings, or are WE -- the military -- doing it ?
Lazar: I think that the ones that we're testing . . . the one
that I was involved in I think is being flown by the military.
Whatever else is going on I don't know. Was that picture taken over
Area 51 ?
Goodman: That's right. And it looks like it. Recognize the peak
Lazar: Yeah. Of course, that's a daytime photograph. And I was
told that all the testing was done at night. And, I mean, that's
Goodman: You described, when you went inside one of these
little puppies, that there were very, very small seats, almost like a
Lazar: Right. Exactly.
Goodman: So we have to have some small guys doing it -- jockeys
or something ?
Lazar: No,no. You could squeeze into it.
these craft appear to be shuttle craft, not the main craft ?
Lazar: I don't know how you'd differentiate between the two ?
Caller: In most instances, people speak of them joining up with
another craft and then going out of the atmosphere. Could the models
you've seen be classed as shuttle craft in that respect ?
Lazar: I really don't know.
Caller: They wouldn't carry a big fleet of people ?
Lazar: No, definitely not. They are small, I'm guessing right
in the mid-30-, 40-foot range, somewhere in there. And as far as
carrying a lot of cargo or beings or whatever, no, there's not a whole
lot of room there. So possibly there is a larger craft that they join
with, but I didn't see any.
Caller: Are there more engines than there are craft at S-4 ?
Lazar: That's a good question. There's nine craft. I really
Caller: It would be something to explain how in the hell we got
more engines than we do craft. There's got to be some kind of an
agreement or somebody helping us.
Lazar: Right. There's certainly more fuel than there needs to
Caller: Since they have released you and taken away your
scientific livelihood, I hope you go on the national circuit, 60
Minutes, the Carson show, everything you can get on, and milk it for
every dime you can get.
Caller: You have a right to do that since they interrupted your
career. But the important thing is to get this stuff into the hands of
the scientific community, that can do some good with it. They've been
toying with it for years and nothing's come out of it. We can't get
anywhere. We've got to get it out of the hands of these power-mongers.
Lazar: I agree one hundred percent.
Caller: I think that's why you took people up there in the
first place. You were tired of their games.
Caller: Did you
go inside all nine spacecraft ?
Lazar: No, no, just one.
Caller: When you were inside the craft, did you see any
indication that either through markings on the controls or otherwise
that these ships were from a different place? Was there any writing on
any controls or anything ?
Lazar: No, not on controls and things like that. But I did see
some evidence of writing.
Caller: When you saw the slight demonstration that was
performed for you, were you the only person that was there that saw
this craft operate ?
Lazar: No, there were several people. I was standing right next
to the person who was in radio contact with the craft.
Caller: How long did this demonstration last ?
Lazar: It was a short duration. It lifted off the ground, slid
over to the left, then back to the right, and set back down. It was a
very short duration.
Caller: But you never saw who was at the controls ?
Lazar: No, because when I was brought in, the craft was in the
hangar. When I came out, it was already out of the hangar and sitting
on -- well, sitting out away from the hangar some distance. So I don't
know how it was brought out, who brought it out, who got in it. I can
Caller: Is the entire thing underground -- all nine different
Lazar: No, it's not underground; it's just butt up against the
side of a little mountain, a little hill kind of, but it's kind of
inside the mountain.
Caller: Do you feel that the billions of dollars that are being
spent on the space program by the administration is a waste of money,
as we already have these ships in our posssession ?
Lazar: No, because look at all the technology that we did get
out of the space program.
Caller: Was it ever disclosed to you that these craft were on
loan to us. Is there a chance of them being repossessed at any time ?
Lazar: No, none of that was ever disclosed to me -- anything
about the origin.
Caller: I heard a rumor earlier this evening that your van was
shot at recently. Is there any truth to that ?
Lazar: I don't have a van. I was shot at in my car.
Caller: It got passed on to me from the Video Clearinghouse in
Yucaipa, and we've been keeping pretty close touch ever since this
news broke. I did get a call yesterday from the National Enquirer.
They might follow up and try and do something for you, Bob. The
Enquirer is not exactly the best way you want to go, but at least it
does have some national exposure.
Caller: You said there's
more fuel than necessary at the Test Site ?
Lazar: Yeah. I don't know exactly where it is, but there's 500
Caller: 500 pounds of Element 115 ?
Lazar: Yeah, and it takes 223 grams per craft, so there's
definitely an abundance of fuel out there.
Caller: Could you quickly describe the underside of these ships
Lazar: No, because I only saw from a SIDE view of only one
craft. The other ones were always sitting on the ground; I never saw
it. But the underside is essentially flat. Now, I never got directly
under it to look. There might be some features down there, but I
really don't know.
Caller: The reason I ask is because you were talking about the
three distortions that can come down from the gravity engines to
distort the graph. Are you aware of any time distortion within the
saucer itself while they are running ?
Lazar: Yeah, there has to be.
Caller: What about SIZE distortion within the ship ? I've heard
reports that people who have been in these that the inside seems much
larger than the outside would indicate.
Lazar: I have heard that too, but I haven't really seen any
evidence of that.
Caller: You were talking about the low- and high-speed modes
and the control factors in there. Can you describe those modes and
what the ship looks like each time it is going through those modes ?
Lazar: The low-speed mode -- and I REALLY wish I could remember
what they call these, but I can't, as I can't remember the frequency
of the wave --
The low-speed mode: The craft is very vulnerable; it bobs around. And
it's sitting on a weak gravitational field, sitting on three gravity
waves. And it just bounces around. And it can focus the waves behind
it and keep falling forward and hobble around at low speed.
The second mode: They increase the amplitude of the field, and the
craft begins to lift, and it performs a ROLL maneuver: it begins to
turn, roll, begins to turn over. As it begins to leave the earth's
gravitational field, they point the bottom of the craft at the
DESTINATION. This is the second mode of travel, where they converge
the three gravity amplifiers -- FOCUS them -- on a point that they
want to go to. Then they bring them up to full power, and this is
where the tremendous time-space distortion takes place, and that whips
them right to that point.
Caller: Did you actually bench-test a unit away from the craft
Lazar: The reactor, yeah.
Caller: About how large is this, and could you describe it ?
Lazar:The device itself is probably a plate about 18 inches
square; I said diameter before but it is square. There's a half-sphere
on top where the gravity wave is tapped off of, but that's about the
size of it.
Caller: Are there subjects you won't talk about
regarding what was going on at Groom Lake at the project ?
Lazar: No, I don't think so.
Caller: Do you have future plans for more publicity ?
Lazar: There are several networks that are interested.
Caller: 60 Minutes ?
Lazar: That's been mentioned, but I haven't heard anything
Caller: Would you do it ?
Lazar: Yeah, I'd do a major network thing, sure.
Caller: Are you familiar with the movie Hangar 18 ?
Lazar: Yeah, I think I saw that when it first came out.
Caller: Do you remember any parallels to what you know now ?
Lazar: I don't remember enough about the movie.
Caller: The KLAS-TV program showed a Los Alamos newspaper
article about you during the time that you were at Los Alamos. What
paper was that ? When was it written ?
Lazar: The Monitor, July 1982, or something like that. I think
I still have a copy at home.
Caller: Did the alien craft create harmful radioactivity in the
Caller: The woman talked about on the show a few days ago --
the child and the two women [Cash/Landrum case ?] -- and they now have
cancer. How did that occur ?
Lazar: I've heard of that before, and that sounds like a really
poor attempt at us producing a craft -- a nuclear-powered craft,
really dirty, spewing nuclear material all over the place. It sounds
something that we would make. It really rings human.
Caller: Do the aliens appear to be the same physical makeup ?
From your research on the craft itself, can you tell if they are
similar to us -- by the way it was designed ?
Lazar: Certainly smaller.
Caller: But there's nothing other than that ?
Lazar: Not from the crafts. I read some material pertaining to
what they call the typical grey. I believe them to be that.
Goodman: It was interesting when you asked for your birth
certificate, and you could not locate it. And they told you that
literally you did not exist ? They TOLD you this in so many words ?
Lazar: They said we just have no records here.
Goodman: And YOU felt that you didn't exist ?
Lazar: I felt that that's what they were trying to make happen.
Goodman: Are you familiar with that type of thing being done ?
Lazar: No, I never heard of it before. I guess other people
Goodman: Did you ever get your birth certificate ?
Goodman: What about diplomas and things of that nature ? Was
there any record of any colleges you have attended ?
Lazar: George Knapp tracked down one, and they still had a
Goodman: All the rest are gone ?
Goodman: Have you called the colleges yourself and asked for
Lazar: Yeah. Yeah. Just like I went and called Los Alamos, too,
and they said, no, you never worked here, and you know, I've been
there for years. You can present them with the information, look,
here's my name in the [Los Alamos] phone book, here are the people
that I've worked with, here is the guy that I worked for, this is the
project I worked on, and all they say is no. I mean it's ridiculous.
Goodman: And when you're talking to these people, I'm sure
there are some that probably are just working there; they don't know
any different. They are just checking the records and saying we don't
Lazar: Right. You can hear them when you call up. They are
checking on the computer. They will type in your name and it won't
come up. So that's probably all they do know.
Goodman: People should realize this -- nowadays especially --
you could be pulled out -- all of us could -- and anything we've ever
done. If someone pulls your name out of a computer where you've worked
before or you've had some past, you don't exist because the new person
or a personnel director going in and checking -- you're not there. You
have no record of that individual.
Lazar: Right. It depends on the level that you look into it,
too. Like I said, George Knapp went out to Los Alamos, and that's
where he got the telephone directory and spoke to someone I worked
with out there, and so on.
Goodman: This mode of travel involved in moving these UFOs
around: Can you see that being a mode of travel for us in the future.
You said it only took grams of fuel. That sounds pretty good to me as
far as being efficient. Do you think that it's possible that we could
be traveling like that in the future ?
Lazar: Well, obviously, THEY do, so I imagine it's possible in
Goodman: I'm talking about our automobiles. And do you have to
be off the ground in order to travel like this ?
Lazar: Yeah, I think you do. It's not a very good mode of slow-speed
Goodman: Something else we talked about off the air. We might
as well tell the people about it. Some strange things are going on in
your life. You mentioned about car doors being opened. Describe what
happened the other night when you and your . . . Shelley left the
house and you came back and the doors were wide open. What do you
think about all this ?
Lazar: It's crazy ! A friend of mine, Shelley, was over, and we
went out to a bar to have a, a, well, a buffet. We went out, locked
the door, checked everything, and we came back several hours later,
and all the doors were open. And nothing was disturbed in the house;
nothing was taken. In her car that was left in the driveway, the seats
were moved all the way back like someone big sat in them. I've gone
with other friends to a health club that I go to. We lock the doors
and check them; in fact, I usually keep a gun in the car and put my
wallet on the dash. We've come out and the doors have been not just
unlocked but actually open -- not even the wallet taken or the gun.
Certainly kids would have done THAT. It's just like someone wants me
to know that they're still there.
Goodman: The last time you were on the Happening, you revealed
the gentleman's name --
Lazar: Dennis Mariano
Goodman: -- saying he was threatening you and was the biggest
problem in your life. Have you had any problems with him since then ?
Lazar: No, not recently, no.
Goodman: How would the anti-matter reactor act in a car ?
Lazar: I don't know if I'd use that in a car. But if you wanted
to, you could use it as a tremendous electrical power.
Goodman: Which goes back to the beginning of time: We were
going to have electric cars and were convinced we shouldn't have
electric cars because we were told we would have to plug them in along
the way. It wouldn't be necessary -- as they said years ago -- to plug
in along the way to re-charge the batteries if we had something inside
to generate --
Lazar: Right. Along the same lines, you could make a NUCLEAR-powered
car, too, running off plutonium.
Goodman: If we wanted to get involved with this anti-matter-reactor-type
or mode of travel, we'd have to have Element 115 --
Goodman: -- which you had in your possession at one time.
Lazar: Yeah, that's one of the things I got. And that was my
Goodman: And they got it off you.
Lazar: Yeah. We did get it. . . For people that saw the KLAS
tape, where George Knapp points and says, "It's stored in containers
similar to this one," well, that WAS one. And that's why we put it on
there. It was kind of a jab at them to say we got it. That was the
real ace-in-the-hole because if everyone came out and jumped on it and
said this is all garbage and everything, you know, just to pop that
out and say, go check this !
Goodman: Listen guys out there at Area S-4: I know you're
listening 'cause we heard this recently. Why don't you get some of
that somehow to Bob.
Why would that be your ace-in-the-hole ?
Lazar: Because anyone can verify that it's an element that
Goodman: Boy, that would be wonderful if we could just get that.
Any of you Mercury Workers up there that want to get involved, and say
that you do want to get involved, that might be a great way to help
Bob's cause out and to prove his story, behind the story.
Someone previously called in and said that some of the Mercury Workers
had decided to get behind Lazar. Has Bob Lazar ever heard anything in
relation to that ? Have any of the Mercury Workers contacted him, and
do any of them intend to go public as you have done ?
Lazar: I don't know what the situation is with those guys, if
they're for real or not. I've got messages through people that someone
called once and said there were three of them and two of them were
captured down at S-4 being tortured. And there was another guy out
here. And so I really don't know what the story is with those guys --
if they're for real or not.
Caller: Have you had any contact from other scientists that you
had worked with or any other scientists either at S-4 or any other
scientists that don't work there ?
Lazar: Scientists that DON'T work there, yeah, that I worked
with at Los Alamos, sure. But none at S-4, no.
Caller: Since you've gone public with this, you've had contact
with them calling you and wanting to know what's going on, etcetera ?
Lazar: Oh yeah. There were a couple that I gave information to
as we were going along. And they knew what was going on already --
Caller: If you had other people to back you up and support you,
it might lend more credibility to what you're saying.
Lazar: That was part of the idea of getting it on the news, and
I thought hopefully I would shake the tree and have these other guys
come forward and all be able to corroborate the story and also have
115 under my belt, but that whole plan backfired.
Caller: This is for them if they're listening: The rest of us
simply just don't have the guts to do anything, apparently.
Lazar: I wish they did.
Caller: Anything in the works with regard to any national
television coverage or news media coverage of any sort ?
Lazar: There's been lots of talk but nothing definite. There's
no date set for anything, but there's been a tremendous amount of
interest, national and international.
Caller: I heard talk that there's a BIG underground base up
there, too. Did you know anything about that ?
Lazar: I've heard that story, but I have no first-hand
knowledge of it. I haven't been in any tunnels or any underground
Caller: If these aliens that have these UFOs are obviously
thousands of years advanced in technology, it seems, how in the world
would it seem that the Government would come in possession of these
UFOs, if in fact the aliens didn't actually want them to have them ?
Lazar: I don't know. They look in very good condition. It
doesn't look like they were crashed, that they were retrieved
somewhere. It really looks like they were given. So I don't know; that
might be the case.
Goodman: Have you ever given thought to the fact that maybe
they were invited here and they actually landed here and that's why
they were here ?
Lazar: Yeah, it's possible.
Goodman: They could have come right to this area.
On TV, you spoke of observing a demonstration of this anti-matter
gravity wave controller device. And you made a mock-up copy ?
Lazar: A friend made one, yeah.
Caller: I heard you speak of bouncing golf balls off of this
anti-gravity field ?
Caller: And also about the candle, the wax, and the flame stood
Caller: And then the hole that you saw appear --
Lazar: It wasn't a hole; it was a little disk.
Caller: Under what conditions did you see this demonstrated.
Elaborate on this. And how large was the force field ?
Lazar: The force field where the candle was ?
Caller: The force field created by the anti-matter device.
Lazar: It was about a 20-inch radius from the surface of the
Caller: Where was this area, just above the device ?
Lazar: Yeah, surrounding the sphere.
Caller: Did the sphere surround the device ?
Lazar: No, the sphere sits in the center of the device. It's a
half-sphere sitting on a plate, and a field surrounds the half-sphere.
Caller: And you just place a candle in there ?
Lazar: No, no, no. That was a separate demonstration. I'm just
telling you where the field EXTENDS from.
Caller: Oh, that's what I'm curious about.
Lazar: No, they tap the field off using a wave guide, off of
the sphere. And this is a completely different setup, where they had a
mockup small gravity amplifier, and there were three focused into a
point, and that area of focus was probably nine or ten inches in
Caller: They displaced this area or moved this area ?
Lazar: No, it wasn't displaced; it's just where the field was
Caller: And in there you put the candle ?
Caller: And that thing can actually bounce golf balls of of it
Lazar: No, no. The golf ball thing, again, had nothing to do
with that setup. The golf ball thing had something to do with just
when the reactor was energized, before the wave guide was put on or
anything. We were just pushing on the field; it was being demonstrated
to me; and we just bounced a golf ball off the top.
Caller: And the candle: Does it melt and the flame stand still
in this DISK that you're talking about ?
Lazar: Well, in the AREA, yeah.
Caller: You don't have to put it in the center ?
Caller: Just anywhere in the area ?
Lazar: Well, the actual flame of the candle WAS in the area --
in the center of the disk.
Caller: And you saw this happen ?
Goodman: You don't show much emotion.
Lazar: Maybe that's my nature, but that's what happens after
ten o'clock if I'm sitting in one place.
Goodman: I'm not being derogatory about it. I'm just saying it
seems like there's no emotion. Some of this stuff that you're talking
about just gives me chills !
We get mail from people at Jet Propulsion Laboratory and McDonnell
Douglas. Would you like to work for people like that ?
Lazar: I don't know. I'm kind of used to working for myself. I
don't know about going to work for . . . especially anything attached
to the Government again, [look with] distrust . . .
Goodman: Off the air, I asked what would you like to see for
the future and what could you do for humanity ? He said we could talk
about that, but the main concern right now is how he can support
himself, and I didn't realize you were having difficulty as far as
Lazar: Oh no, not really difficulty, but it's something always
to look for.
Goodman: How could anyone in our listening audience assist you
Lazar: Oh, they really can't. There's several things I did
before I began to get into the program up there. I used to race my jet
car. I'll probably start that up again this season and expand my
scientific business, United Nuclear. I'll probably increase that into
a sales field and things like that.
Goodman: Okay, I just thought we could bring that up just in
case there was someone out there that could use your services. What
service do you offer, if someone out there could use it ?
Lazar: Someone would have to be fooling around with plutonium,
and there aren't many people that do that.
Goodman: Don't bet on that. You never know.
Was the craft you worked on one that WE made or was it one that was
brought here by the aliens from another planet ?
Lazar: This is a craft of alien origin.
Caller: That was brought here BY them from another planet ?
Caller: Do we know anything about their way of life ? Do they
speak the same language or what ?
Lazar: I really don't know. I really know very little about
that. I'd LIKE to know a lot about that. You assume that they mass-produce
the craft, so there must be some sort of factory somewhere. That means
there must be workers in the factory. Do they have a social life ? I
mean, the questions are endless. I'd like to know myself.
Caller: And if they are here on this planet, WHERE are they ?
Lazar: That's another good question. You got me. I really don't
Caller: If one walked up to my door, what am I supposed to do ?
Lazar: I don't know. I guess you'll find out really quick if
they're benevolent or not. But as far as what to do, who knows?
Goodman: Say you're up in Kansas out in a farmland and you see
this person that looks really far-out, do you think they're just going
to wait for them to come to the door or do you think they're going to
shoot and ask questions later ?
Lazar: Probably shoot and ask questions later --
Goodman: That's the problem. Wouldn't that cause all kinds of
consternation amongst these people if they find out one of their
people were --
Lazar: Well, you have all the stories of the abductee reports,
about medical examinations; I mean they go through a lot of trauma and
stuff like that. When it came right down to it, if I was confronted by
a bunch of them -- my car stopped or something to that effect, a craft
obviously in sight -- yeah, I'd take on a hostile attitude really
Goodman: Unless you were told differently --
Goodman: -- by the Government: these people don't mean to harm
you; they're going to be landing in your cities, whatever; just [kinda
Caller: Do you think in the future our President will tell us
on national television that the UFOs are here, that he will make it
known to us ?
Lazar: I doubt it.
Caller: You don't think he ever will ?
Lazar: No, I don't think he could muster up enough to do that.
Caller: One of the presidents in the past was supposed to say
that if he was elected he was going to tell us all about it, but he
Lazar: Carter. That tells you something right there, because he
never got in and denied it. He just got in and didn't say anything.
Caller: Did you have a badge when you went to work ?
Lazar: Sure did.
Caller: Did it have any designation on it ?
Lazar: As far as what ?
Caller: What did it say ?
Lazar: It's a white badge. It has two -- a light blue and a
dark blue -- diagonal stripes through it. On the top it says MAJ-12.
The clearance level is called MAJESTIC; I don't know if that was, like
I said before I don't know if that means anything as far as the
MAJESTIC-12 documents go, or if they just called that clearance that
as a nostalgia type of thing. My picture was on it -- what else was on
it . . .
Caller: Did it have both MAJ and MAJESTIC -- both words ?
Lazar: The only place I ever saw MAJESTIC was on Dennis's [Mariano]
badge, who was my supervisor, and his badge looks slightly different.
I don't know if it was an older kind or what.
Caller: You mentioned you were doing back-engineering, but
specifically, what was the breakdown of your duties, for example, for
one day, with respect to, say, what your co-workers were doing ? What
was the breakdown, the division of tasks ?
Lazar: I have no knowledge of what the other people were doing.
Caller: But you were not working simply by yourself.
Lazar: No, just with one person.
Caller: And what was the difference between what you did and
what he did ?
Lazar: Well, we were basically in the training phase. He was
getting me up to date on everything, so we never split off, and you
know, he went and did his thing, and I --
Caller: Did you ever see an analysis or spectrogram of 115 ?
Caller: And what did that tell you ?
Lazar: Well, that it was an unknown element. Then we did
density and weight calculations, which are pretty basic, and of course
it was too heavy for its physical size. It was an X-Ray spectrograph.
I don't remember what other tests we did to it.
Caller: How did you know what the times of testing would be to
go up to the sites to view the object. And do you know where it's
being tested now?
Lazar: Dennis told me the testing times. And of course those
were the times that I relayed to other people, and we went out there.
What was the other question ?
Caller: Do you know where it's being tested now ?
Lazar: Oh, I have no idea. In fact, if I was them, the last
place I would test them would be S-4.
Caller: Are you
familiar with Alnico 5 magnetic material we use here ?
Lazar: Yeah, it's a common -- I never heard the 5 designation.
Caller: It's a very dense magnet. Is that close to the material
of 115 ?
Lazar: Oh no, not at all. That's an acronym for aluminum,
nickel, iron, and cobalt, none of them being anywhere near it
Caller: Are there portholes on that craft ?
Lazar: At the very top, there is portholes; they are square,
Caller: But they must be able to see by TV or. . . ?
Lazar: I don't know. I just saw from the outside. When I was
inside, I never -- I don't think I really even bothered to look up
there; I don't recall.
Caller: With the gravity generators running, is there thermal
Lazar: No, not at all. I was never down on the bottom WHILE the
gravity generators were running, but the reactor itself -- there's no
thermal radiation whatsoever. That was one of the really shocking
things because that violates the first law of thermodynamics.
Caller: The atomic weight of the 115 material: Is that heavier
? We know the 115 atomic weight would be different from the
gravitational weight. Is the gravitational weight of that material
very heavy ?
Caller: How does that stuff break off? Do you saw it or does it
grind up. How do you get to test grams or whatever it is ?
Lazar: I don't know. I really don't know how that's machined
into it. I know it is machined, but I don't know if there's any
special procedures employed.
Caller: Does it melt ?
Lazar: I'm sure it does. And just historically, all heavy
elements are also toxic. I imagine it is a very toxic thing. What else
? If you use the standard designations as started at 103, its name
would be "unuspentium [sp ?]." Its symbol -- if it's going to be
plugged into the periodic chart -- would be UUP. In fact. I have a
friend that gave it kind of a cute name; he calls it "unobtainium."
Caller: In your wildest dreams, do you think you would be able
to create any of this stuff on earth -- in order to do the same thing
Lazar: In fact, I'm in the process of fabricating the gravity
amplifier, but then I'm at a tremendous shortage for power. So yeah, I
have even tried to do that stuff on my own.
Caller: Is there any electronics as we know it -- chips or
Lazar: No, nothing like that. Because of the tremendous power
involved, too, there was no direct connection between the gravity
amplifiers and the reactor itself.
Caller: Are the wave guides similar to what we use with
Lazar: Very similar.
Goodman: You mentioned all heavy metals are toxic ?
Lazar: Yeah, they seem to be. Lead, radium, plutonium . . .
Goodman: Element 115 ?
Lazar: You would just assume it would be toxic.
Caller: Is Sector 4 also called Papoose Dry Lake Bed ?
Caller: Is it also in a place called Emigrant Valley ?
Lazar: Right. You can see Papoose Dry Lake from out of the
Caller: In regard to the long-range method of travel, isn't a
propulsion unit the wrong idea ? I feel this device is creating a
situation where it is diminishing or removing the localized
gravitational field, and long-distance body that they're heading
toward is actually PULLING the vehicle rather than it being pushed. Am
I correct in this ?
Lazar: The vehicle is not being pushed. But being pulled
implies it's being pulled by something externally: it's pulling
something else to IT. IT's creating the gravitational field.
Caller: Is there any relation to the monopoles which [scientists]
have been looking for ?
Lazar: Well, they've been looking for the monopole magnet. But
then this [the UFO force] is a gravitational force.
Caller: Different things but exhibiting similar effects ?
Caller: Last night I saw a four-door Japanese car. On the right-side,
rear, passenger door there were three 9mm bullet holes, about a 12-inch
group. Is that the vehicle that was shot at ?
Lazar: No. That's similar to my car, but they missed me.
Caller: Do we give something in exchange for all this information
they're giving us ?
Lazar: I really don't know. I don't know what went on behind
the scenes as far as how we got the technology.
Caller: Did they give us the 115 in large quantities ?
Lazar: Yeah, 500 pounds is what I'm told. The way I've seen it,
it comes in little thin disks close to the size of a half dollar.
Caller: Did you ever own any, or -- ?
Caller: What happened to it ?
Lazar: It's gone. It was stolen out of my house along with some
other stuff that I got from there.
Caller: [By] the Government ?
Lazar: That's what I assume; I HOPE it's in their hands; I'd
hate it to be in . . . A few people did know about it -- some UFO-related
people -- and I'd hate for unexperienced people to be in possession of
the stuff. But yeah, that was taken. We did get some film of it and
some film of it doing some really unusual things.
Caller: How did you get hired at Area 51?
Lazar: I was referred by a well-known physicist to talk to
someone. And I really don't want to go all into that because then I'm
pointing fingers at specific people.
Caller: Were everyone's mouths shut where you worked ?
Lazar: Yeah, everyone wouldn't let you talk, and it wasn't a
really happy environment. Everyone was just into what they were doing
and that was it.
Caller: What year were you working up there
Lazar: Last year.
Caller: I heard from someone I know that's a pretty good source
that a small amount of plutonium, like a picogram, might be good for
you. Is that true ?
Lazar: No, not at all.
Goodman: What would you use plutonium for ?
Lazar: To die. In the lungs, it's almost immediate lung cancer.
It's toxic in itself. The body has a tough time getting rid of it.
It's just bad news.
Goodman: And you're messing with it.
Lazar: I don't have any at my house.
Goodman: You said that's part of what you're working on.
Lazar: Electronic equipment to detect plutonium: They're called
alpha radiation detectors or air proportional detectors.
Goodman: Why do you want to detect the plutonium ?
Lazar: They use them to screen personnel that are leaving an
area that's been plutonium contaminated; they check equipment for
plutonium contamination; so on and so forth.
Goodman: This is as bad as radiation ?
Lazar: Plutonium does produce radiation.
Goodman: So it's as bad as when they've been clearing the
people in nuclear power plants and stuff like this ?
Goodman: And you're devising a device that's going to be easier
Lazar: No, our device is just less expensive.
Caller: Can you list your credentials ?
Lazar: As far as what ?
Caller: Schooling, degrees.
Lazar: I have two masters degrees; one's in physics; one's in
electronics. I wrote my thesis on MHD, which is magnetohydrodynamics.
I worked at Los Alamos for a few years as a technician and then as a
physicist in the Polarized Proton Section, dealing with the
accelerator there. I was hired at S-4 as a senior staff physicist to
work on gravitational propulsion systems and whatnot associated with
Caller: What school did you go to ?
Lazar: I'd rather not say, the reason being I am currently
working with them under contract, and I'm having enough trouble with
this as it is.
Caller: Why did you leave the Groom Lake project ?
Lazar: I don't want to go into that either. That's a big, long
complicated story. It gets into my personal life, too, and I don't
want to get into that.
Caller: Have there been any attempts made on your life ?
Caller: When was the last one ?
Lazar: There was only one direct one. I really don't remember
when that was, maybe six, eight months ago, something like that. Just
being shot at getting out on the freeway.
Caller: Did another car drive by and shoot you ?
Caller: Are there any weapons on board the alien craft ?
Lazar: Not that I know of. Of course, the gravity generators
themselves can be focused, and I imagine that can be used as a weapon.
Caller: How many alien people do they hold ?
Lazar: I don't know. How many people can you fit in a car ? I
imagine if there's a bunch standing up, you can pack them in there.
Caller: Is Element 115 an extraterrestrial material ?
Lazar: Yes, definitely.
Caller: How do you suppose the S-4 project came to acquire 500
pounds if it's not from this world ?
Lazar: I would imagine it came on one of the craft.
Caller: Extra fuel, huh ?
Caller: How close can a civilian get to Area 51 or Emigrant
Valley? What is security like? How many guards and so forth ?
Lazar: I think the closest you can get is probably about 10
miles, and then you get a mountain between you and them.
Caller: A lot of patrols ?
Lazar: Oh yeah.
Goodman: Off the air, you said you traveled one time on
hydrogen in your car.
Lazar: Yeah, I had a 1978 TransAm I converted to run on
Goodman: We were talking about this one night as a new fuel for
transportation. Is that more dangerous than gasoline ?
Lazar: It depends how it's stored. There's ways you can do it.
You can store it as a gas, compressed in a cylinder where, yeah, it's
dangerous and explosive. You can store it as a liquid -- cryogenic
liquid -- where it's also dangerous and explosive. Or you can also
store it in a hydride [sp], a chemical that absorbs hydrogen like a
sponge absorbs water. When it's in that storage state, it's really not
flammable. You heat the chemical using the radiator water, or
electrically, or the exhaust gas to produce the hydrogen, and there's
only a small amount at a time ever produced. And in that instance it's
a lot safer than gasoline, and that's the method I use.
Goodman: In other words, we could put these in automobiles ?
Lazar: Absolutely, definitely. The only exhaust is water vapor
-- essentially steam and very little oxides.
Goodman: Where do we get hydrogen ?
Lazar: The most common place is from water. When you pass
electricity through water, you break down the bonds and wind up with
oxygen and hydrogen.
Goodman: What could we be charged if we pulled up to a tank and
asked for some water ?
Lazar: It takes energy to separate the water back into its
molecular state, or atomic state rather.
Goodman: But forgetting what the components are inside the car,
if a driver were to drive up, they would just have to put water into
this particular unit ? Could they make it that simple?
Lazar: You could make it that simple, yes.
Goodman: Has this been known for years in the scientific field
Lazar: There's been plenty of cars that have been made to run
on hydrogen. In fact one state somewhere has their entire postal fleet
with little jeeps that run on hydrogen. There's a company called
Billings Energy that does the conversions.
Goodman: Why do you think it's not being made readily available
to us ?
Lazar: There's probably lots of reasons. You're looking at the
oil companies. . .
Goodman: Okay. That's what I wanted to get to.
Lazar: But you can always point your finger at them for
Goodman: But I mean, it's just being held back from us even
though it could be here.
Lazar: But you've got the problem of availability, too, if
you're going to just use gaseous hydrogen.
Goodman: What would it take to change our current motor in a
car to accept this ?
Lazar: Not very much at all. It's very similar to a propane
Goodman: Have you heard from Mr. Teller at all ?
Goodman: Not one word ? In other words, he's done nothing at
Goodman: You said we're nowhere near being able to have an
anti-matter reactor ?
Lazar: No, not at all. The first thing we'll come up with when
we toy with that some more is -- and there's already been talk of it
-- is an anti-matter weapon. Unfortunately, that's the easiest thing
to produce. First we'll see that before we'll see potential useful
Goodman: I was talking to Bob Lazar off the air, and Bob is a
jet car driver. That's how he relaxes, doing 350 miles per hour.
Caller: Are the nine disks quite different in appearance ?
Lazar: Yeah, they're all completely different in appearance.
Caller: Are they then perhaps from different star systems ?
Lazar: Could be.
Caller: You said the one you looked at, the Sport Model, was
from Reticulum, right ?
Lazar: That's what I READ.
Caller: So that has the gravity propulsion system. But then
some of the others may have some other type of propulsion system ?
Lazar: I was told that the reactors are all similar in them [the
crafts], and from that I just assume that the propulsion system is the
same. But it is possible that the other ones have different propulsion
Caller: How many light years from Earth to Reticulum ?
Lazar: 32, 33, 34, somewhere around there.
Caller: They must get away from Earth before they amplify these
gravitational systems, do they not ?
Lazar: They don't HAVE to, but it has to be a line of sight
where they can move to.
Caller: In other words, it wouldn't have any effect on the
Earth even though it were close to it when they turned it on ?
Caller: Where do the aliens fit into religion ? They must say
something about it. I heard that they had a [bearing] on us through
religion, perhaps through colonization.
Lazar: I've read some about that. You know, I don't want to go
into that because that's going to upset everybody.
What is the top speed of the craft ?
Lazar: It's tough to say a top speed because to say speed you
have to compare distance and time. And when you're screwing around
with time and distorting it, you can no longer judge a velocity.
They're not traveling in a linear mode where they just fly and cover a
certaindistance in a certain time. That's the real definition of speed.
They're bending and distorting space and then essentially snapping it
back with the craft, so the distances they can travel are phenomenal
-- in little or no time. So speed has little bearing.
Caller: Is the laser part of their technology or their flying
Lazar: No, I haven't seen anything along that line.
Caller: Is Rockwell involved with that ?
Lazar: Not that I've seen.
Caller: You've mentioned anti-gravity generator and anti-matter
generator. Are they different ?
Lazar: It's not a gravity generator; it's a gravity amplifier.
I get tongue-twisted all too often. The anti-matter reactor provides
the power for the craft and the basic low-amplitude gravitational wave,
which is too low of an amplitude to do anything. It's piped into the
gravity amplifiers, which are found at the bottom of the craft. There
it's amplified into an extremely powerful wave, and that's what the
craft is flown on. But there is an anti-matter reactor: that's what
provides the power
time I asked Bob Lazar about the hyper-light propulsion systems he had
seen, he said the crafts have hyper-light capabilities -- beyond the
speed of light. Do you know anyone in our government or who worked on
the craft who might be from Earth who has taken those craft and flown
past the speed of light to other galaxies ?
Lazar: I don't, and I don't know if they have been used for
Caller: Is there any way to find how many of our guys on
particular programs have gone to space, what they're learning, exactly
where they are now, and whether or not there's any tie-in with the
Alternative Three Escape-Earth Plan that supposedly the Government
leaders are stirring up now. Is there any place that you know of that
this information can be found ?
Lazar: I imagine, if any of that is in fact true, it would be
found in the midst of S-4 or 51 down there. But how to contact those
guys and actually get them to talk is a feat not yet attained.
Caller: What is it you are now doing now that they have cut you
off at the knees ?
Lazar: I do other scientific research and produce, design, and repair
alpha radiation detection equipment.
Caller: A number of copies of these broadcasts and the show on
Channel 8 and all the other stuff has been getting around, perhaps
even internationally. Has anybody bothered you since you went public ?
Lazar: Other than the sily little things that have been done,
no, nothing, nothing big to be concerned about.
Caller: Are we going to see you at any of these things like the
January 7th conference ["An Evening With Bill Cooper"], or other
symposiums in the future ?
Lazar: I don't think so, no.
Caller: an onus on your head, it takes a lot of courage to keep
coming back to the airwaves. I stand up and cheer as one.
do your magnetohydrodynamics studies relate to the hot spots in the
earth's magnetic flux, and does that relate to the deep-hole theory,
the Soviet Union's plan ?
Lazar: I don't know what the Soviet Union's plan was. I looked
at it from a power point of view, as producing on a large scale plasma-generated
energy in a power-plant situation, or producing something that would
retrofit -- like a coal-fired plant that has a lot of waste heat and
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