I know the Pogue carburetor unit worked, since liquid gasoline
burns but pure gasoline vapor explodes. What we are doing in our
cars with the carburetor is dripping fuel into a turbulent air flow
which somewhat vaporizes the fuel. EFI just adds to the turbulence
with high velocity fuel injectors, and timing fuel with ignition
has given us a few more MPG. Getting the fuel totally vaporized
should give us at least 200% better MPG. What they do now also
is make the fuel rich into the engine to reduce hydrocarbons and
knocking! The added liquid fuel 'cools' the combustion in order
to reduce the hydrocarbons and knocking...slower burn.
An ultrasonic vaporizer sounds good, however, the water ones will not
work correct. There is a manufacturer that makes ultrasonic nozzles
for humidifiers in heat pumps, but costs are around $2000 and up.
A neat concept that one person came up with is to make the air flow
even more turbulent and increase the length or time for fuel to mix
with the air. Check out... http://www.spiralmax.com/ This small
added vaned unit creates a air vortex and it carries lots of photos,
testimonials, theories. Notice however the hidden caveat? improvements
from "0"....?
v/r Ken Carrigan
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Knotts [mailto:adriank@aros.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 3:49 AM
To: Carrigan, Ken; 'interact@keelynet.com '
Subject: RE: Pogue Carburator
hi Dwayne, Ken, Justin, et al....
Question?
ok, actually 2...
would it be possible to stage the vaporization? Say, pump the gasoline into
a smaller heating chamber where the vapors are drawn off? this could then
be controlled and timed. It could be started before the engine and shut off
before the engine. Anyone who's driven a tractor-trailer is familiar with
the startup process of allowing an element to heat up (the glow plugs)
before turning over the engine, as well as a slightly different shutdown
(turbo spindown, etc)? This would eliminate the major obstacles inherant
with having to heat the entire fuel tank and also offer a few other unique
characteristics to work with, ie: A separate heating chamber could also
have a double action pressure relief valve (kind of like on a pressure
cooker) to vent the excess vapor through a few loops of cooling tubing and
back to the tank. Mechanically (or electrically) this could also open any
time the engine wasnt running to allow extra pressure to be vented off,
cooled and returned to the tank?
also, I heard, years ago, about somebody using a ultrasonic transducer
inside the plenum of the intake to "atomize" the gasoline. After all, isnt
this the goal? to completely vaporize the fuel? even the droplets formed
from injection arent absolutely efficient. A simple high-power transducer
inside the intake would be a potential solution right? It might even work
in a multi-port injection, where the fuel is injected directly into the
cylinders but would certainly take a lot more modifications. In the plenum
style injection systems where the fuel is injected into a cavity then drawn
off into the intakes of the cylinders it seems that it may well work with
even minor modifications to the system and/or computer program. Since this
is almost identical to carb systems it may function as well as the info I
saw in the late 70's/early 80's which was presented as a dramatic
improvement.
I know that people have had success with it, but, never heard about the
results, just the development. This makes me wonder if it didnt work "too"
good.
just a thought.
Adrian
At 11:24 AM 4/2/00 -0400, Carrigan, Ken wrote:
>There are many conerns to this system (like a tank of hydrogen in a car)
>in implementing in a car. I think this maybe one reason that car
>manufacturers do not implement it. One is the warming of the fuel in
>which gasoline is heated to over 80C. I had done this quasi pogue
>experiment on a VW about 20 years ago and blew up my VW. The problem
>was that sucking fuel from the heated tank acutally cools the fuel
>(from vapor evaporation) and more heat is required to keep it at a
>contant heated hot temp. Once the engine is stopped, heat is still
>pouring into the fuel (as there is a time delay) and the fuel becomes
>so hot it the liquid bowls and pressure builds. This fuel system
>then developed small leaks and into the engine compartment and one
>stray spark ignited the whole engine.. and POOF. Was a quick burn I
>might say.
>
>Another problem beside the heat time delaying, (oh this VW ran good
>too.. until the fuel got too cold at higher engine speeds) is the
>vaporizing of the fuel. Once the vapors come off the fuel, what is
>left in the tank?? Now the GEET device uses other stuff like Salt
>water, coke, pickle juice, etc. What is left in the tank that once
>all the 'vapors' are sucked off. I know Fuel Oil does not like to
>vaporize to easily and coke? What happens to the sugars and carmel
>that do not get vaporized?
>
>v/r Ken Carrigan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: The Szymanek's
>To: wayne Phillips; interact@keelynet.com
>Sent: 4/1/00 4:15 PM
>Subject: Re: Pogue Carburator
>
>Hi Dwayne, et all!
> When I was at the science fair last week, with my project "Basic
>Aether Engineering", I saw another project which did vapor carbs. I
>talked to the two guys, who were in Gr.9, and they showed me how it
>worked. They took a lawn mower engine off a small push lawn mower, and
>removed the blade, etc. The engine had only a few minor changes made.
>The gas tank was heated by a in-line heater, to 37 degrees Celsius. They
>had a hose going into the gas from the outside to keep the pressure
>equalized in the tank. They ran a vacuum line from the top of the tank
>over the motor, to the other side of the motor. The carb was removed,
>and gas fumes were fed directly into the motor. They had some thing that
>let air in, without letting the fumes out, at this point as well. I
>don't know the all the correct terms for all the pieces, but they were
>simple things you should be able to pick up at hardware stores. They
>also had a electronic timing system to help the engine run better. The
>normal idle time for the engine was 4 hours, but with this vapor carb it
>was a bit over 16 hours! And they were still using flea temps and
>pressure! My cousin, who is very good with motors, was there too and we
>went over it, and figured out how it worked. We had designed a very
>similar system just with information from the net. We never built it,
>but now we will. This summer we are planning to build this lawnmower
>experiment. Full documentation and plans will appear on my website when
>this happens. Next time I see him, I see if we can draw up a schematic
>with all the parts correctly labeled, and I'll upload it.
> It's basically just like the initial experiment with the lawnmower
>that was responsible for the rediscovery of this technology in the 70's.
>My cousin and I had planned to build it, but never did, as there are no
>sites or people who claim to have built it [besides HIMA]. When I was
>taking with the guys who built it, they said "hey you know more about
>this than we do, why didn't you build one for the fair?", my answer was
>simple, I had planned on it, but lack of confirmation let it slip
>through the cracks of my mind. People need to communicate their results
>if we plan on getting anywhere.
> So yes, I would say that there is something to all of this. Buy the
>book if you want, but a very simple basic experiment can be done simply
>by putting information on the net all together. Warm the fuel, and feed
>the fumes into the engine. For a larger scale (i.e.. car engine) a
>propane carb system could be used to regulate the fuel to air ratios
>quite nicely. This is all very simple, more so than even GEET. There are
>issues to be worked out, safety being one of them. Gas vapors are pretty
>explosive for example. However the basic principle is very simple and
>easy to prove. Hopefully with the help of my cousin the mechanic, I will
>have more solid proof behind this in the summer.
>Good Luck!
>-Justin
>
>
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