Steve wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I for one did not join this list to "preach", or to evangelize, and I have
> tried my best to keep my personal views in general out of my posts, (except
> where the 'government' is concerned, I have to rag on the government,
> whenever possible!) However, since the topic has strayed into this
> territory, I would like to 'weigh-in' on this discussion.
>
> First, I think I need to explain a little, about the many reasons why I am
> here on this list to begin with; in spite of the fact, that I would
> probably be considered by some like Gerald, to be one of those who believe
> "superstitious dogma propounded by certain ignorant misguided religions of
> the dark ages."
>
> One of the events, which got me looking closer at the possiblity, that
> conventional science has some pretty big blinders on, when it comes to
> acknowledging the existance of Overunity, and 'natural forces' that here to
> fore, have not yet been fully explained, was a mear party trick!
>
> Has any one else out there, ever experienced 'near weightlessness', by
> sitting in a chair, and having 5 people hold their hands over you? In my
> case, there were four small women, and one man. First the women tried to
> lift me out of the chair, by clasping their hands together, and extending
> their index fingers, and putting their extended fingers one under each
> knee, and one onder each arm pit, tried to lift my 240 lb. frame. They
> could not! Then they stood around me, alternated their hands above me, (one
> on top of the other, about one inch apart not touching), and just stood
> there for about five minutes until I started to feel a "liquid warmth" on
> the top of my head. then they broke formation, and quickly the women did
> the exact same manuver to lift me, which had failed 5 minutes before. They
> did not even have to exert themselves to lift me good four feet in the air!
> No one was chanting, or calling on 'dark forces', or even burning incense!
> Just standing there!
>
> Now! As a medical person, I am well aware that people can perform
> extraordinary feats of adrenalin induced strength; but in this case, I find
> it highly unlikely, that they had even been 'psyched' into a mental state,
> where adrenalin was a factor; because none of the women had ever done this
> before, and were mearly following my cousins instructions! So! I must ask
> you: What was the force that 'disrupted gravity', enough for me to be
> lifted in this manner?
>
> Another, event which helped convince me of Overunity, is my own
> experimentation with the Hammel Spinning disk. I built my own version of
> this device, and demonstrated it to my friends at the Tennessee Inventor's
> Association; and had a nuclear physicist tell me, "That's the damnest thing
> I've ever seen!"
>
> So! What does any of this have to do with our debate about the "religious"
> aspects of our forum? Well, several things! But, I must back track a moment
> to bring all this into focus for you.
>
> [But first, I am going to state here and now that I am not "putting down"
> anyone's religion, but yes, Gerald, the Catholic church has historicaly
> been very antagonistic, to progess in general of the human race. And, the
> Omish eschew technology altogether, (as best they can in a world, in which
> technology is simply inescapable!) But, I for one am very tolerent of both
> those groups; because, my life is complicated enough without antagonizing
> people, whom I ultimately consider (if they are true believers), brothers
> of my faith, regardless of our many doctrinal differences! ]
>
> I believe that it was Jerry himself, in a post not too long ago, who
> mentioned that he had some very religious Christian relatives, and was very
> surprised to find that they kept a pyramid in their backyard, as a root
> cellar of sorts. If I remember correctly, he then concluded, "so much for
> this stuff, as being new age".
>
> Another post, from someone recently who from his own experimentation
> actually decided that the term "evil" best described pyramid power, because
> in their view, it was " a life draining force". There is a prime example of
> someone, who probably dosen't hold my religious views, assigning the same
> "value judgement", that I would, but for totally differenton reasons, on a
> topic, which is generally 'fair game' on this list. So, I have no remorse,
> or any reason to NOT share my value judgements, in the same vein, just
> because I happen to be a Christian!
>
> Well, my view of this, is that deception comes in many shapes and colors,
> and I for one know that I have been taken in, many times in the past, by
> things which I should have left alone, and would have, if I had only been
> listening to God! And, I am trying my best to keep my ears open to hear God
> tell me if I am going in a direction, that I should not go, for whatever
> reason He deems, because, He is after all GOD! And, He WILL speak, if you
> will only listen, "He who has ears to hear.... "
>
> When I participated in that party trick, was I unknowingly 'dabbling' in
> the "Occult"? If so, then I repent, and ask God's forgiveness; but, if I
> don't examine this more closely, how am I ever going to know, if it does
> fall into the catagory of "Witchcraft"? At this point, I am not certain of
> the "physics", which may or may not, be behind this phenomenon. AND,
> nowhere in 'my' Christian religion, has it been outlined for me, (unlike
> Gallileo), that I do not have a right to explore the world of "science",
> which may behind this phenomenon!
>
> Brother Don came very close to making one point, that I thought very
> pertinent, that Jesus pretty much came to throw-out virtually everything,
> that most people hold as being 'religious'. When Jesus declared Himself to
> be 'THE' only way to the Father, the "RELIGIOUS" folks of the day had a
> cow! So much so, that they had Him put to death! And, we as individuals
> must come to a conclusion one way or another on this point, because:
> 1) There was an historical figure that we call Jesus, to whom all the
> miracals of the Bible are ascribed.
> 2) He, for one, believed the things that he said, and he was either
> "right", or he was a mad man!
>
> I said that; because, I only believe in Him now, because I was searching,
> for something, and all I had to do was open my heart to the possability,
> that Jesus was who He said He was, and God showed me in an incontrovertible
> manner, that Jesus was THE bridge between God and man. If you don't believe
> that, then call me a lier; but from where I stand. I am not about to
> contridict God!
>
> Stephen Brummitt
> dev@icx.net
> ___________________________________________________________________
> At 11:26 PM 9/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >Gerald thanks for writing,
> >
> >>
> >> Hi Don.
> >> Energy, matter, AND spirit, are all part of GOD's one great creation.
> >
> >yes thats true.
> >
> >> Your FEAR of investigating things that have been named "spiritualism" by
> >> others in the past strikes me as irrational. It sounds more like the
> >> superstitious dogma propounded by certain ignorant misguided religions
> >> of the dark ages.
> >
> >only if we clearly state that any belief at all in texts such as the Koran,
> >Bible, Talmud etc... have absolutely no validity or bearing in todays world.
> >I havent found that to be the case myself. In fact I've found that the
> pervasive
>
> >and staunchly defended religion of academics, politicians and most
> religous leaders
> >which is 'humanism' is rarely correct or accurate about anything. I have yet
> >to see one essential spiritual 'truth' from a book like the Bible ever fail.
> >I am NOT a religous person. I have little time for orthodox religion at all.
> >I find it quite stale, meaningless and without life. But then when Christ
> walked
> >the earth he also didnt get along with most religous leaders for much the
> same reason.
> >It is one thing to be closed minded and shut oneself off from scientific
> discovery
> >new perceptions on ourselves, the universe, each other, the fabric of reality
> >and quite another to simply recognize something that is clearly in violation
> >of what one believes to be true. If I say I don't subscribe to the practice
> >of witchcraft and am labeled a superstitious, dogmatic, ignorant, and
> misguided
> >religionist, then by your definition I simply havent the opportunity to
> discern
> >what I feel is right or wrong irrespective of social influnce. I find that
> >proposal quite frightening and in actuality that seems very much like the
> sort
> >of thing that a violent, intolerable and fascist regime would dictate.
> >'Thought crimes' - aka Orwells 1984. I know it is quite fashionable and
> trendy
> >to be 'pagan' in the 90's but I've never been big into fashion myself nor
> >have I been big into organized religions of any kind, be they Catholic,
> >Humanism or Cyber-Shamanism. I just believe what I believe and try my best
> >to do my best.
> >
> >>Believe what you want to, but your superstitious fears
> >> serve only to enslave your own mind.
> >
> >I fail to see how exactly you have determined that my fears are those
> >of an enslaved and superstitious mind. I did not simply wake up one
> >day and blindly let some old and out of touch priest ram regurtitated
> >orthodoxy down my throat and then say to him, 'thank you suh, may I have
> another?'
> >My fears are based, at least to me, on what I feel is quite rational.
> >I'm certain, since you have seemed to indicate that your beliefs are opposite
> >of mine, that you have a rational basis to your beliefs. So you are rational
> >while I am not. I see. What rational process did you use to arrive at this
> >conclusion? Was it simply the fact that I believe something differnt than
> you do,
> >that your belief is superior to mine and that I should be quashed? That
> >doesnt sound very rational to me. Or is it that because humanism is so
> very much
> >more popular than what you cleary suspect me of being, an out of date
> orthodox
>
> >religionist freak akin to the typical hollywood media rendition?
> >
> >>This forum is about science not religion.
> >
> >yes, that is what I had thought initially, which is why I was surprised to
> see
> >what seemed to be to be religious ideas of wicca or witchcraft being
> >talked about as 'science'. Gerald Berry, how many actual 'scientitsts'
> >would see the pyramid device as scientific? How many wiccans would see this
> >description as being one to which they would gleefully and intimately relate?
> >This is then certainly a 'religous' theme in the forum to some degree and
> one to which you
> >do not seem to object. Or do you actually mean that there is room for
> some religions and not
> >others? Are you saying we may discuss topics of 'appropriate' religous
> topics
> >but not others. If witchcraft doesnt disturb you but Christianity does,
> then you
> >shall banish any concern that smacks of a 'Christian' type tone with a quick
> >draw of the pen, while on the other hand securing the place of other
> 'religions'
> >within the forum by simply stating directly that its ok to do so or by
> simply
> >attempting to disguise it adequately enough to junior members who don't
> know any better.
> >And then should someone make a stink about it, such as myself... you can
> summarily
> >squelch them by crying indignantly, 'Hark, what foul religionist
> besmirches these hallowed
> >halls?" "Out with you religionist!" So if your right to expression stands
> >and mine is not allowed, where is the freedom? It sounds to me like
> intolerance
> >and clever manipulation of ideologies to meet the agenda of those who wish
> to propogate
> >same and not an open forum of simply 'science and discovery' at all.
> >
> >>I suggest that if you object to the study of certain things
> >> based on your religious beliefs, that you keep it to yourself and simply
> >> stay away from it rather than trying to rationalize your personal
> >> 'moral' objections to everyone else. I for one do not subscribe to this
> >> mail list to be preached to.
> >
> >Yes I know, you've stated we may only discuss appropriate religious views,
> >yours. Anything else just won't do.
> >
> >Interesting, and yet here you are preaching to me. You say I should not
> object
> >to the study of certain things, I should shut up and go away. And yet you
> are
> >'morally' objecting and rationalizing your right to tell me publicly that
> you
> >have a right to which I am not priviledged. Isn't this tyranny? Your
> perception
> >and opinion is superior to mine in your eyes and in fact as far as you are
> >concerned I not only should not express what I think (however you are
> allowed to)
> >but I should be removed entirely. Perhaps if we lived in Rome you could
> avoid
> >annoyances such as me by simply tossing me to the lions, that would be so
> >much more convenient for you I imagine. And for the record, I NEVER said
> I was
> >'religous'. You never gave me the courtesy or made the effort to find out
> exactly
> >where I was coming from. I simply said that witchcraft was against my
> spiritual beliefs
> >and you decided to 'champion' what ever your cause happens to be since in
> your eyes
> >I had committed a grievance or sent up the warning flag of not agreeing to
> what
>
> >I was reading and indicating such.
> >
> >Not that any one is likely to care, but the Bible states quite clearly
> that 'divining'
> >and spiritualism is wrong, case closed for me. I do not have a closed
> mind I simply
> >refuse to do something which I think is horrifically wrong.. I have built
> orgone accumulators,
> >rife generator type devices, cloudbusters, geode transmutation devices,
> worked with
> >l-fields and have spent likely hundreds of hours reading all sorts of
> different topics
> >related to alternative technology. I am but a simple layman with an
> inquisitive mind,
> >perhaps Gerald you know better and can tell me what to believe and how to
> act, as in your
> >infinite wisdom and like the Priests of the inquisition you seem to know
> best and I
> >shouldn't be allowed to think or decide for myself... because I am an
> ignorant, superstitious,
> >dogmatic religionist.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Don J. S. Adams
> >
> >P.S. In case you happened to miss it, I 'm assuming you must have and just
> didnt perform a
> >kneejerk reaction to my statements. I very clearly stated that I was OPEN
> to hearing how
> >the pyramid device or radionics ACTUALLY were scientific and NOT based on
> any religious
> >ideologoy such as witch craft. No adequate follow up has to date been
> provided on this.
> >All that seemed to occur was for Jerry to confirm that sure it could be
> construed as witch craft,
> >but thats ok because labels don't mean anything. Gerald, do you think
> labels mean anything?
> >Such as "superstitious dogma propounded by certain ignorant misguided
> religions of the dark ages."
> >
> >Respectfully yours,
> >
> >Don
> >
> >
> >
> >>
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