Otis Carr Interview (1 of 2) - KeelyNet 06/03/02

The text of this material is kindly shared by Mike Hughes of Anaheim, California and though very faded in many spots, typed up by Jerry Decker as this online file for KeelyNet. As usual, it is intended to be copied at other sites on the net for the widest possible audience of interested parties. The following is extracted from a 1957 radio interview between Long John Nebel, Otis T. Carr and Norman Colton as reprinted in Energy Unlimited around 1983.

L.J. - According to the schedule here the delivered price payable in full on delivery, with no prior commitments required, and including all poolings, and other overhead is 20 million dollars. Additional identical units are on the same schedule for 4 million dollars each. That's a lot of money! My name is Long John and we call this 'the Party Line.'

I imagine you wonder what I'm talking about for 20 million dollars. Well, I've had a few sponsors and we've sold a few things, but I don't have O.T.C. Enterprises Inc. of Baltimore, Maryland as sponsor but they do have something to sell. Mainly, a circular foil spacecraft that is available for 20 million dollars. We have talked about flying saucers on the program many times. But tonight it appears to me we have two very solid citizens who represent O.T.C. Enterprises and according to all of the brochures, all of the booklets, everything we have in front of us and believe me we have a stack of things in front of us, including miniature working models, and with all of this material. I'm led to believe these men and believe that there is something to flying saucers.

And the men that I'm referring to are Otis. T. Carr, President and Norman Evans Colton, Director of Sales Engineering. These gentlemen are associated with O.T.C. Enterprises, and we'll be talking with them tonight about the possibility of making a craft that can go to Venus, that can go to the moon, that can go to Mars, that costs 20 million dollars. And after we have the first one the rest of them won't cost too much, about 4 million dollars each. We have with us this morning Ben I. and Mel Saloney. They will be doing a lot of talking with a lot of people and I hope that you might call some of your friends and neighbors and tell them that if they are interested in flying saucers, this is one night that they should be with us.

Mr. Carr, some time ago one of our listeners sent me a brochure that was published by O.T.C. Enterprises. It's a very beautiful brochure; it's certainly a very inspiring one, and when I read this offer about a spacecraft that would be made available for 20 million dollars, I nearly flipped and I mentioned it on the air, and evidently somebody contacted your Director of Sales Engineering, Mr. Colton and he contacted us and that's why you're here this morning.

Before we talk about the particular space craft that you intend to manufacture, I would like to ask you a couple of questions. One; Do you believe in the possibility of flying saucers coming to this planet, the planet Earth, from other planets?

O.T.C. - We believe that there are unidentified electrified objects in the air. We have seen three on three separate occasions.

L.J. - Do you say you've seen three Mr. Carr? Did you see them in the air? Were they hovering above a particular location?

O.T.C. - In the air, they were going at great velocity and they were definitely electrified because we have been working on the same principle for many years and we recognize what we saw.

L.J. - Well when you say electrified, what other type, if we may use the word saucers this morning because many of our listeners understand that, what other type of saucers could there be other than electrified, could there be gas driven or something Sir?

O.T.C. - There could be if we followed principles now known within our atmosphere. There are many manners in which a circular craft could be used, such as the helo principal and jets on the area close to the foil, the leading edge. But in the incidents of the three different ones which we saw in 1951 and 1952 they were definitely electrical and they were very close to what we had already designed.

L.J. - Did you say the 'Helo' system?

O.T.C. - That's right. Well any system of circular rotation that can use a motive power such as jet propulsion would make an airborne craft.

L.J. - In what way is your invention different from the unidentified flying objects which you have seen?

O.T.C. - We do not know, naturally not having been able to examine the objects we saw due to the great velocity, we can't say with certainty that they are similar to ours, but the principle we feel is the same. Our design utilizes gravity, electro-magnetism, and electromotive force and a relative field to get its functional operation.

L.J. - I haven't understood a single word of your last sentence. Without getting at all technical could you sort of make it a little bit easier?

O.T.C. - We use this statement that we use an electrified sender. It's a central power core. Now this is what we call an 'accumulator.' In a vernacular sense, it is a factory. It is a storage cell, an accumulation of storage cells which provide an electromotive force in the same manner that any known battery produces an electromotive force.

L.J. - Is that what you are holding in your hand there?

O.T.C. - That's right.

L.J. - Can you describe it?

O.T.C. - This is a dimensional object. It was designed with the dimensions of space itself. We say it is truly the geometric form of space, because it is completely round and completely square. Now in this surface they are all round but when we show it this way the surfaces are square. It has been proven in scientific laboratories that the very smallest unit of mass matter ever photographed in the electron microscope are square in shape. This has only been found out in the last couple of months. We have known it for years and have applied this principle into an electrified system, which is the power core of our space vehicle. Now what makes this different and unique and novel from a battery is the fact that this is a piece of moving machinery that rotates. Our average storage battery is an inanimate object set in an inertial spot and then the electromotive force is conducted by wires from this battery to animate some object.

L.J. - Let me interrupt a moment, I'll try to describe it further. Well it looks like two ice cream cones put together at the wide ends, but the angle is a lot wider than that of the ice cream cones. There are a series of ridges that look like gears would fit in. Is that correct?

O.T.C. - No, those are in a sense 'turbines principles'. They are 'reactive channels'. And where there is atmosphere a flow of air there aids rotation.

L.J. - Well then, is this one of the components of the drive, this is the battery?

O.T.C. - This is the central power core.

L.J. - This generates electricity?

O.T.C. - This is right. This is a storage cell for electrical energy. In operation it generates electricity at the same time it puts out electromotive force. This is the central power system for our space craft.

L.J. - I can tell this, that it opened up and it appears to be hollowed out on the inside, much, I would say....well it's circular, the inside, when the two parts are put one on top of the other and they fit into place, the cavity inside is circular.

O.T.C. - It is a sphere, yes. And each unit is a hemisphere. We call the center of this, this large dimension the equator and of course it contracts and expands to a point on each side. It's the union of two conical sections, that is what it is. Two right angle sections, and we say it is the dimensions of space and we have shown how this comes about.

L.J. - This is Tuesday morning October 29th, 1957....Here is a paragraph that you sent copies of your brochure outlining your system of propulsion that you have developed to President Eisenhower and the Cabinet and the Atomic Energy Commission. Have you received an answer from them?

O.T.C. - There was recognition of receiving the material.

L.J. - Beyond that did they give any value judgement on what you had to contribute?

O.T.C. - No, we have not received any value judgement.

L.J. - Don't you think that is a little odd?

O.T.C. - Yes, I do.

L.J. - Is there any way that you can explain it?

O.T.C. - I have my own ideas about this. Of course no way to substantiate such ideas. To give my own personal opinion, we have a truly safe vehicle which is not expendable, it does not burn up its energy in a few seconds, it carries the energy with it, it can leave the earth's atmosphere and return man, it also can be used within the atmosphere. It can make a trip as easily as other aerial transportation systems from here to Baltimore or from here to the moon. Now it is inexpensive, it certainly doesn't cost as much as the systems of the expanding rocket. The fueling is much less expensive and whether or not our offer is entering into an economic picture that is not feasible at this time, we don't know. This is one of our opinions.

Ben - Mr. Carr. I've been glancing at the literature that you provided us with. I've been going over it and there is a mathematical formula that crops up here that intrigues me, minus zero divided by plus zero equals zero. The first time I ever saw a minus zero is in a mathematical equation in the work of Einstein. I wonder if you can tell me more about it and how you stumbled upon this idea.

O.T.C. - The equation is brought about by the shape of our Utron electrical accumulator, this is the name given to our central power system. In our operation of working models and in checking out experiments, we had to find the formula that fit the reason for the action and reaction we were getting. So in exploring nature and studying the great inspirational work of Dr. Einstein on relavitivity, we came upon this formula of linear correlation. And when we study linear correlation in geometric form, we have to have a starting point and this is the point. And from there it expands through the cross and through the circle. And the mathematics, the only way we can express it, is in the symbolism of zero X (or 0x) and this formula brings us to that. We claim that this is the true unified field theory in physical practice.

Ben - The thing I wonder about....is how you were led to the concept of a minus 0.

O.T.C. - In a further study of Dr. Einstein's great inspirational work and we corresponded with him and we had the great good fortune of being advised by him at one time, we learned that all measurements of time and space had to be considered in relationship to the observer and therefore there never was a fixed equation, due to the observer being an attempt, as I understand it, the observer himself being somewhat the minus factor and therefore you can't have any fixed quantiy of any number. Now in physical form, this is something else again. We worked for a considerable time with and had many conferences with the great Nikola Tesla and his evaluation of the sine wave and electrical principles and the true value of alternating current and hydro-electric systems were developed by the great genius of this man. Further inspirations came to us and finally from this knowledge and continuing to seek we found this formula.

Ben - Did you find this formula, Mr. Carr?

O.T.C. - I found it with the assistance of Mr. Colton in the evaluation. Mr. Colton researches very heavily in all the work that I do and we collaborate very closely. Also Mr. Shea collaborates with me in research.

L.J. - Mr. Carr, when was O.T.C. incorporated?

O.T.C. - ...1955.

L.J. - And how long prior to the year 1955 were you associated with Mr. Shea and Mr. Colton?

O.T.C. - Not before that, they have come with me since then.

L.J. - Were you interested in this before 1955?

O.T.C. - We started, I use the editorial 'we', this development in 1937. Our investigations began in 1937. We were actively making models in 1938. In 1942 we had come up with the basic principles.

L.J. - In other words, 18 years prior to this year you had in your mind that possibly some type of craft could be developed that you could go into space with? Is that right?

O.T.C. - This is true.

L.J. - Do you hope with this craft, if you are able to manufacture it, that you can go to other planets with it?

O.T.C. - Escaping from the immediate gravity pull of the earth plus the heavy atmosphere of the earth enables us, just as our satellites are doing now, to join a universal free energy system. They have a velocity now of 18,000 miles per hour, more or less, without any expenditure of energy whatsoever. Now any energy attached to this would immediately throw them into a higher velocity orbit which would expand them further into space...This is extremely easy to do. We feel that our craft will gradually escape and possibly escape the atmosphere of the earth and then we can handle velocities almost unimaginable in reaching other gravity systems and the moon should not be more than five hours away.

L.J. - Five hours away from Baltimore, Maryland.

O.T.C. - That's right.

L.J. - How many people can you have in this craft?

O.T.C. - The one we have on the design board which is 45 feet in diameter, the cabin would accomodate 3 to be comfortable.

L.J. - And with type of equipment will you have on board of this craft?

O.T.C. - On this craft, insofar as the individuals are concerned, can travel the same as in a pressurized airliner. We don't have the problem of a heat shield.

L.J. - What about high velocity?

O.T.C. - We don't have a problem of thermal barriers because the electro-magnetic system sets up a protective shield in our craft which enables us to overcome this barrier without any discomfort to the occupants inside the craft. And we can very slowly rise, and once we are outside the atmosphere, we can accelerate to tremendous velocities up to the speed of light itself.

L.J. - I am greatly interested though in the method of landing this craft if you were able to get to the moon. Let's forget the moon a minute, if you get the craft up from this planet from the airport to Baltimore, how would it land sir?

O.T.C. - Back in Baltimore?

L.J. - Yes.

O.T.C. - Very simply, we can fly at a very slow velocity of 100/ft. per minute or less and we can sit down as gently as a feather because part of the operation of our craft has joined universal systems. This is a relative velocity of the attractive inertial mass, it becomes weightless as regards this inertial attraction. Individually, it is not weightless, it has the same weight as before, but when it reaches the relative location it becomes an independent system just as a planet is an independent system.

L.J. - Is there any gravitational pull at this point sir?

O.T.C. - None whatsoever.

L.J. - What happens to the occupants of the space craft?

O.T.C. - They are perfectly comfortable.

L.J. - I mean are their heads on the ceiling?

O.T.C. - Not at all. They will have the same feeling of pressure or weight that they have right now because we will maintain as near as possible the atmospheric pressure of the earth at sea level inside the craft.

L.J. - This is rather technical for me, Mr. Carr, so please accept my apologies for being rather stupid and ignorant in my line of questioning. I am under the impression that the only reason I'm able to sit in this chair, is because of gravitational pull.

O.T.C. - We have this at around 14 pounds per square inch within our atmosphere. We have been able to be sealed off away from such a condition and thus artificially with atmospheric pressure the pressure in the cabin is maintained. We have it very well in submarines. The same may be used in our craft.

L.J. - In other words, under sea, where a submarine may be, there is no gravitational pull, is that what you're saying?

O.T.C. - There is a gravitational pull at all times but we're speaking about the atmosphere of the particular occupants inside a sealed unit.

L.J. - Is that necessary to keep occupants in the position they desire.

O.T.C. - Absolutely, because in a vacuum they are at the mercy of any velocity.

L.J. - What would happen, sir, if there was some kind of instrument that you could turn on and eliminate the gravitation pull that was in this room?

O.T.C. - You would in a sense become very buoyant and this is not in itself a novelty but it certainly does not have any disastrous effects on humanity.

L.J. - Would I remain in this position?

O.T.C. - You could, but any movement could move you out of it.

L.J. - Would objects, the mike, remain in position?

O.T.C. - Until they were brought into any other movement. Any movement would make them buoyant themselves.

L.J. - I have a lead pencil, if I hold it in the air and release my fingers, it would fall because of gravitational pull.

O.T.C. - This is true.

L.J. - If we had this other condition which you so aptly described a moment ago, if I released my fingers would the pencil remain in midair?

O.T.C. - This is true, it would stay there.

L.J. - I believe what you are saying is that you'd be creating an artificial gravitational field within the body of the space craft and yet there would not be any gravity on the outside?

O.T.C. - Exactly correct.

L.J. - And this is done by the battery which I attempted to describe, spinning around and producing its own gravitational influence?

O.T.C. - Yes, this is the beginning of an answer to your question - we have capacitor plates and electro-magnets as a part of this system. Now this is counter-rotating, the electro-magnets rotate in one direction and the accumulator, the batteries rotate in another. The capacitor plates rotate in conjunction with the battery so that we have a clockwise and counter clockwise rotation. Now the third system is the cabin that maintains the crew. This does not rotate, it is fixed due to the fact the two bodies are rotating clockwise and counter clockwise. Therefore the system causes the craft to escape from the gravity pull. The craft itself due to this system still has internal gravity because it still has the same weight that it had in the beginning.

L.J. - What charges this battery?

O.T.C. - This starts out electrochemically the same as other batteries, but we do have a regenerating system that is very unique. We are able here, the first time to our knowledge, to use atmospheric electricity as a recharging system. This is done as a part of operational principal of the craft.

L.J. You say you use atmospheric electricity. What happens when you use the atmospheric and there isn't any atmosphere?

O.T.C. - We have electrochemical systems to provide us with all the energy that we need and have a regenerating system in the manner of a regenerative coil that recharges this battery, in the same manner that the storage battery in the automobile is recharged now, by a generator.

L.J. - What you have done is made the first perpetual motion machine.

O.T.C. - There is nothing perpetual about our machine. The energies which cause it to operate are perpetual. You cannot destroy matter, you cannot destroy energy. Molecular flow is perpetual and has been proven in the laboratory. It has been proven that electricity itself is immortal. When we take away resistance we can set up a spark of electricity and it will continue to operate, therefore we have perpetual energy. No machine that we can conceive of made by man would be perpetual, but it is free energy. It's self energizing and as long as all parts function and do not wear out this is truly a self energizing machine.

Ben - About this formula, were you using conventional algebraic methods?

O.T.C. - No, we weren't, partially conventional, but we were joining actual space forms. We arrived at satisfactory equations for ourselves which can be demonstrated.

Ben - Are the physical laws upon which your invention works, are they expressible in mathematical terms?

O.T.C. - Possibly, but I wouldn't say that I'm qualified. We're satisfied with this formula.

Ben - Well, it's like saying plus 4 divided by minus 4 equals 4.

O.T.C. - Sometimes these solutions are not always what they appear. As we know, in synergy, we know one plus one equals three.

Ben - One plus one equals three? How?

O.T.C. - Because two conditions always produce a third.

Ben - The third condition is 2 isn't it?

O.T.C. - Not necessarily...

Ben - Could you go over these conditions?

O.T.C. - If one condition operates one way and another operates another way, and when they join you have another condition and their sum is 3.

Ben - Well that's a little bit over my head, I've been looking at this prototype you have here and I noticed a wooden frame or scaffolding, you have a larger model of.....that you have in it a turbine and around it is a wooden ring and it seems to be filled with electro-magnets.

O.T.C. - That's right, this is a wood model of the operational model. What we have here is the cones - our Utron electric accumulator - that is the power system. This system activates the electo-magnets and in turn activates...

Ben - Does the system - the thing inside - activate the electro-magnets on the outside?

O.T.C. - This is true. We do this by contacting this lead wire from the positive and negative poles of these batteries to the electro-magnets and then we have circuit breakers from these electro-magnets and we have counter-rotation. These electro-magnets will rotate counter clockwise while the internal area is rotating clockwise.

Ben - Are the spools of wire on the model itself, are they magnetized also?

O.T.C. - The coils of wire inside the ring are regenerative coils, they are electro-motive force coils and they assist the regenerating of the battery. Because they are loops of wire brought through a magnetic field which sets up an electro-motive force. These others are capacitor plates and these are also activated by the central power core; but these plates, which can accept a very high charge in neutral conductance also through the process of ionization utilize atmospheric electricity.

Ben - I mean if you turn that thing...I don't see how you can get a square.

O.T.C. - Dimensionally it is, it is square in these dimensions and when this rotation starts and builds up to a certain velocity, this form is very important because we have the total equation of action and reaction. Now this is done by a system of coil winding wherein we start at a point, expand to an equator, continue our winding down to a point. With this physical expansion and contraction, is an electromagnetic field. Where gravity enters the picture in the form of this relative rotation. When the relative rotation reaches the inertial effective mass, it's a matter of dimension. So that if the earth as we say is 8000 miles in diameter, we know its fixed rotation is 1 in 24. If we were 1 mile in diameter its rotation would be 8000 in 24. And by the same system, our 45 foot craft would have a rotation of 580 rpms a minute and when it reaches this rotation it is totally independent of its inertial attractive mass, in an electro-magnetic field.

Ben - 580 rpms a minute, that's not very fast is it?

O.T.C. - Well, if you say a merry-go-round going 580 rpms a minute that would be quite fast.

Ben - If your models get up to 580 rpms a minute, will they take off?

O.T.C. - This model was spun at 40,000 rpms a minute and when it did it set a pressure pattern of 1000 tons, the horsepower reading was a little over 700. Six engineers checked this out. Now the relative rotation of this model would be about 68,000 rpms a minute and when it reaches this rotation, it would immediately take off.

L.J. - Sam Vanderburt is the photographer who took pictures here this morning. They will appear in edition of Argosy Magazine dated April, 1958.

L.J. - A question from a telegram - Would the time factor be involved with this craft?

O.T.C. - In our solar system, the time factor would be involved, yes. We evaluate time on the velocity of light and in certain systems, if we exceed the velocity of light, unquestionably the time would slow up.

Ben - Your craft can exceed the velocity of light?

O.T.C. - We don't say this, I say in other systems.

Ben - I thought nothing could do this, I thought it was a constant factor, one of Einstein's factors.

O.T.C. - Possibly in our system, but not necessarily true in other systems.

Ben - Anything approaching the speed of light becomes pure energy.

O.T.C. - Pure energy, but in other systems it could change.

Ben - What other systems?

O.T.C. - Other solar systems, we are completely controlled by our system and here the velocity of light is our yardstick and our pattern and our craft is designed around this...

Ben - You just don't upset one of the basic principles of the universe.

Mel Salomey - Doesn't Einstein say any measurement is relative?

Ben - Except this one, it's the first axiom.

Mel - What is an axiom?

Ben - Self-evident truth.

Mel - Thank you. Wasn't Einstein theorizing, wasn't he assuming?

O.T.C. - However we have to get back to what has been accomplished. We have invented an electrified system which makes it possible for a propulsion system which put into operation can carry human beings, with a fuel system which is not expendable and take them into space and bring them back and return in this craft. If I had the tools now, and those tools are available in large plants. If those tools were available to me we could have this craft on the moon in six months from this date.

Question - Mr. Carr, on this sheet I have in front of me, the sheet headed, Performance Characteristics and Delivery Terms for the OTC-X1 circular foil space craft. I noticed the paragraph headed 'physical components.' Safety under normal conditions would be anticipated in flight. It would be within 1000 miles away from earth. Now maybe I am not reading this correctly. Sir, but as I read this you are saying that at the present time you feel that the OTC-X1 craft could go a distance of 1000 miles away from earth and yet a few minutes ago you told us you could go to the moon in 5 hours.

O.T.C. - That is true, the same craft, after all this is a contract form and we have not been to the moon. We are going to enjoy looking at the earth 1000 miles out and I think that would be satisfactory if we make a safe return.

Question - From a thousand miles?

O.T.C. - 1000 miles was picked as an arbitrary figure for demonstration purposes only. Before we delivered the craft we would take the crew a distance of 1000 miles.

Question - Before you delivered to the purchaser?

O.T.C. - That's right.

Question - Then let me ask you Mr. Colton, how long would it take you to go 1000 miles and return provided you don't hover around 1000 miles away from the earth?

Colton - It could be done in a matter of minutes, probably because of the takeoff and landing practicalities, it could be done comfortably in the space of one hour.

Question - Comfortably?

Colton - So as to avoid awkward velocities and any discomforts.

Question - In other words the possibility of going to the moon in five hours is a dream at the moment, right?

Colton - No, I wouldn't say it's a dream...

Question - Well, if it takes you an hour to go 1000 miles away from earth it should take you a little longer than 5 to go to the moon unless you've got an indirect route that will save a little time.

Colton - If you think of it in terms of a passenger train leaving a station and arriving at another station or an aircraft traveling between cities. This proportion and the amount of time it takes for takeoff and landing, the distance of approximately 50 miles in a heavy atmosphere would be traveled very slowly. Once out of that atmosphere as Mr. Carr said almost any type of speed is possible up to and approaching the speed of light. You couldn't approach any such speed because you could reach 1000 miles in the wink of an eye. That's why I say the figures are rounded off and arbitrarily selected for discussion and preparing the contract proposal.

Question - Mr. Colton, 20 million dollars sounds like a lot of money if you purchased an amount of jellybeans but it doesn't sound like a lot of money to me if you could produce the craft you propose. Do you have any idea in your mind why some big aeronautical concerns, Lockheed, etc.; I don't know all of them, why it is that they haven't taken advantage of this opportunity to invest. It's quite possible it wouldn't cost them 20 million dollars because they already have so much equipment available to them.

Colton - Up to the present time we haven't approached them directly with an offer.

Question - You were incorporated in 1955 and I imagine you have made an effort to get some money to promote your product.

Colton - An offer we made was that the OTC-X1 craft will be parked in any specified area in the Continental US and go one or more times outside the earth's atmosphere and land within a distance of the Pentagon building in Washington or any other location best suited for public observation.

Question - What are these coils? To describe this the best I can, imagine if you will a circle about 16-18 inches in diameter. Two circles that form a sort of a...in other words 1 circle fits over another circle and from the top of the circle and coming down from off the circle are two cones, in other words one is up like a round pyramid, the other an inverted round pyramid. There are a number of what appears to be copper wound coils around the edge of it. If you looked at it head on it would look like an old fashioned airplane engine more or less. And then there's sort of a framework on top and underneath there's sort of braces. That's the general idea, I noticed this, these cones placed mouth to mouth with some coils, the coils on the edge of this thing, it revolved within this structure. A tough thing to describe.

Question - What is this over here, Mr. Colton?

Colton - This is a paper mockup to show the counter rotation principle and its outside circular section that Roy is describing looking at the other mockup. It contains the electrified horseshoe magnets. This would rotate in one direction counter clockwise while the center section with the electron accumulator would, which he described as 2 inverted cones mouth to mouth, would rotate clockwise in the other direction.

Question - Would these coils in the outer rim..?

Colton - Rotate counter clockwise, correct.

Question - What is the material in the actual space craft?

Colton - A number of materials would be used.

Question - Was the outer shell possibly aluminum, sir?

Colton - Possibly aluminum, possibly fiberglass. Certainly not any material or materials or products not known to use or easily available.

Question - When you say 580 rpms do you mean the outer rim is rotating in 1 direction 580 rpms and the inner rotating in the other direction at the same speed, giving a total rotation, one relative to the other of 1160 rpms?

Colton - Exactly, although I don't know if 1160 has any bearing on it or not.

Question - Well, it would be twice the rotation in reference to the earth.

Colton - We're not giving it for a certain rotation for the sake of rotation but for the sake of relativity to the attractive mass. The earth at 8000 miles diameter rotating once in 24 hours is relatively equal to a 45 foot craft rotating at 580 and 580 would calculate to be the approximate rotational speed of an automobile tire on a car moving at about 25-30 miles per hour.

L.J. - I'll try to describe a description as seen from the outside. I was attempting to describe the inside of the mechanism which is very difficult but I think I could describe it this way if I may. Imagine taking a couple of loud speaker cones and putting them mouth to mouth. Now that seems to be the body of the craft as you would see it in flight or well let's say landing. Now around it is an independent ring...so that the mouth to mouth speaker cones revolve inside the ring and on its axis.

Question - It looks like a flying saucer. It sort of reminds me of a gyroscope...

L.J. - Have you described the basic principle of the thing?

Colton - Yes, Mr. Carr described the basic principle and the relationship of electricity and electro-magnetism.

L.J. - Could a small craft be made to take off?

O.T.C. - We plan to build a prototype model as a demonstration device. Now I would like to state certain models have been built by me and tested. Each one has been airborne. One was lost entirely in space. We had a control system and this one didn't function. This has already been done.

L.J. - Years ago a man sold me two pieces of balsa wood, two cross pieces, and a rubber band. It would take off and go up very nicely and gently descend to the ground. It was not surprising to me that a thing like this is quite feasible. As a matter of fact he had a fantastic flying platform. He said it would one day be a way of flying instead of a prop in the front. OK now, how does it differ from this particular flying saucer? That's what it really is, in principle, in motivation. The flying platforms I believe are a combination of a propeller and a jet. Thus directing motion downwards. This does not have anything to do with this system?

Question - None whatsoever. As we calculated, the speed of the circumference was 1263 miles per hour. It gets kind of warm at that, doesn't it?

O.T.C. - No, it won't because it has its own protection field which is its electro-magnetic actuation. We described it as a self contained unit the same as an orange. It contains its juice within its skin and maintains its own circulatory system, like mammals and animals, etc.. This ionization of the capacitor plates sets up a glow brilliantly with a very soft luminscent light.

L.J. - What color?

O.T.C. - It would be in the nature of the blue green or very similar to the electric arc you see in welding. This is the field we are testing, you do not have a heat barrier in forward velocity at all. This electro-magnetic field is being tested out now in conventional aircraft and proved very efficient. We have known that there is something a long time in our particular operation. We found out by actual physical tests.

L.J. - Have you patented this?

O.T.C. - We have patent applications in preparation and on file.

L.J. - I personally am very reluctant to try to argue with you about this device because it looks like a very definite look into the future. Do you think that there are flying saucers from other planets?

O.T.C. - These are electrified unidentified flying objects. We have seen these as mentioned earlier on this program and we were interested inasmuch as we were already building models and tested them out by the time we had these observations. Now, it is not up to me to conjecture whether or not they are from other planets, but the evidence is so because we certainly would not have to spend 355 million dollars to build a rocket if we had such a system, which we propose to make possible. We have the system ourselves. If the system is in operation already, something is very wrong to put this money expense on an expendable rocket. 55 million dollars is no cost at all to test out a rocket that only gets a few feet off the ground.

Question - Well, what do you think about the principle of rockets under certain conditions? Would you suppose you could put rockets toward the edges of the cones and have the ring spin by rocket propulsion?

O.T.C. - We don't need it.

End of first interview.

Carr 3 article

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